Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist

Well, that begs the question was Botha a terrorist when he authorised the bombing of the ANC offices in London?

[spreadsheet]

blowing random people up to make a political point is, in my opinion, just not cricket

for a start you might be blowing people up who agree with your view


and when they send letter bombs to people - you don't get the letter opened by - say - ted heath - or whoever - it will be a secretary or someone in the post room - and there are instances of this happening but typically do not make big news - but are obviously big news to the injured person and their family which in turn causes reciprocal aggro


so......interesting stuff

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Got a link for that? If he did then I would consider that as a terrorist act though Botha not a terrorist.

Is any military action on another nations territory terrorism. I'm thinking the drones in Pakistan or africa?

There is apparently such a thing as 'state-sponsored terrorism'. Was our bombing of Dresden a terrorist attack? Wasn't really needed, thousands of innocent people were killed.

Originally Posted by Damien

the underacknowledged F. W. de Klerk,.

He was wise enough to realise that after the collapse of communism and the fall of the Berlin wall Apartheid should also be dismantled.It was unfortunate that it couldn't be achieved peacefully

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, that begs the question was Botha a terrorist when he authorised the bombing of the ANC offices in London?

seeing as it was not on his soil I also would say yes

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

There is apparently such a thing as 'state-sponsored terrorism'. Was our bombing of Dresden a terrorist attack? Wasn't really needed, thousands of innocent people were killed.

we were at war and did not brake the rules of war at the time and seeing the target was a major rail transport and communication centre it could be argued a legitimate target

[spreadsheet]

there's loads of 'offices' in London

for people who are so keen on their country that they never seem to ever want to set foot in it (dole, health benefits...don't get me started!!!)




seems to me that the agro going on in their country is a cash cow for them




Dalai Lama for instance - if they said to him - look - here's tibet - we're sick of it - have it back - he'd go back there and be a nobody

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

That firestorm was unnecessary but as the winners we could justify it. If Germany had won then all our leaders would have been in Nuerenburg instead of the Nazi's. The winners are always portrayed as the good guys and the loosers the demons. T'was ever so.

Which brings us full circle. Mandela only got lionised because the ANC won. Had they lost he would have been an obscure figure in history.

Just look at what history did to Richard III to see what happens when you lose

[spreadsheet]

Originally Posted by Damien

There is apparently such a thing as 'state-sponsored terrorism'. Was our bombing of Dresden a terrorist attack? Wasn't really needed, thousands of innocent people were killed.

the Dambusters raids in Germany caused huge damage and massive civilian casualties and was the sort of Twin Towers attack of its day - and yet we build statues and make films about these heroic acts - "yes but" etc etc


so - once again - stuff to think about

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

That firestorm was unnecessary but as the winners we could justify it. If Germany had won then all our leaders would have been in Nuerenburg instead of the Nazi's. The winners are always portrayed as the good guys and the loosers the demons. T'was ever so.

Which brings us full circle. Mandela only got lionised because the ANC won. Had they lost he would have been an obscure figure in history.

Apartheid would still have eventually been unsustainable. However it's fall would have been a lot bloodier and we could well have been horrific retaliations against the former ruling classes. Mandela is lionised not because the ANC won exactly but because he ensured a peaceful resolution to the end of Apartheid which is so small matter considering what had been done in it's name, including what had been done to him. He came out of prison and forgive those that put him in there, didn't speak vengeance, and persuaded others to do the same.

Originally Posted by spreadsheet

the Dambusters raids in Germany caused huge damage and massive civilian casualties and was the sort of Twin Towers attack of its day - and yet we build statues and make films about these heroic acts - "yes but" etc etc


so - once again - stuff to think about

It was a War that the Nazi's started with their attempt to take over Europe and control the oil with Japan and Italy in the East

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Apartheid would still have eventually been unsustainable. However it's fall would have been a lot bloodier and we could well have been horrific retaliations against the former ruling classes. Mandela is lionised not because the ANC won exactly but because he ensured a peaceful resolution to the end of Apartheid which is so small matter considering what had been done in it's name, including what had been done to him. He came out of prison and forgive those that put him in there, didn't speak vengeance, and persuaded others to do the same.

it is funny that all the acts that were not peaceful are forgotten though

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

it is funny that all the acts that were not peaceful are forgotten though

We're talking about them now. More than we're talking about what the apartheid regime did in fact.

Originally Posted by Damien

We're talking about them now. More than we're talking about what the apartheid regime did in fact.

That is because this thread was started and I am grateful because I was holding off on posting anything about it anywhere. If you want to discuss the evils of apartheid why not start a thread about that maybe?

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

it is funny that all the acts that were not peaceful are forgotten though

They aren't forgotten their justification may have been though

Originally Posted by martyh

They aren't forgotten their justification may have been though

I am scared this is twice now we have been on the same side ish lol

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Was the apartheid regime killing innocent civilians with bombs and guns? If so I'd like to see some links to support your assertion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre