Kelly's BT Openreach Engineers - Page 5

Yoot · 26-11-2013, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodledandy

Re: Kelly Communications
Hello fellow cable guys,
I've been offered a position with Kelly's as an Overhead installation Tech, on the BT Openreach contract. Minimum of four jobs a day. This is on a Self Employed basis. Paying £25 per complete install and £10 if incomplete for any reason & £15 for BT Vision installs. My tax & NI are taken care of through Work force construction at a cost of £32 per fortnight. I have also been informed that should I leave with in 12 months I will be charge £500 for cost of training. So PLEASE PLEASE can you guys advise me as to how Kelly's currently work and how the employees are treated any pay issues and work conditions

Thanks

Why not ask to be paid direct and take care of your own NI and tax? Why pay for the luxury of being paid? Or perhaps, have your own accountant? It would cost far less than £32 per fortnight!

MrIca · 26-11-2013, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoot

Why not ask to be paid direct and take care of your own NI and tax? Why pay for the luxury of being paid? Or perhaps, have your own accountant? It would cost far less than £32 per fortnight!

I don't think that's an option. Doubt there would be an option for PAYE. As far as I understood it the £32 is compulsory!

judgey · 26-11-2013, 09:17

Yes it is compulsory.......
But paying them to take your NI and Tax is taking the michael

MrIca · 26-11-2013, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by judgey

Yes it is compulsory.......
But paying them to take your NI and Tax is taking the michael

Compulsory, says who? Remember if you're self employed you've got no boss.

Seems like Kelly's and Quinn's have reinvented the term!

Yoot · 26-11-2013, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIca

I don't think that's an option. Doubt there would be an option for PAYE. As far as I understood it the £32 is compulsory!

I'm not suggesting a PAYE option, aren't we self-employed? Contrary to popular belief/what we are lead to believe we are not! But how do self-employed tradesman get paid usually? Directly! Are they generally forced to use an umbrella company? No! They either get an accountant or do it themselves! Were we given that option? No! Do i need to go on?

Ultimately WE ARE EMPLOYED and any contract which states otherwise is horlicks! Subsequently we should, by law, all be entitled to the National Minimum Wage (calculated on the basis of our pay frequency, divided by the number of hours worked - fortnightly in our case) and if the said contract proves less favorable than the National Minimum Wage, then by law, it's overridden. Don't believe me? Go ahead, discuss it with Her Majesty's Customs and Revenue! Naturally, as employees we should all be entitled to 28 days holiday per year as well.

insulatorpotty · 26-11-2013, 21:00

we were given the option to be paid direct when the contract started but you had to have a ltd company. i dont that option exists anymore.

MrIca · 26-11-2013, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoot

I'm not suggesting a PAYE option, aren't we self-employed? Contrary to popular belief/what we are lead to believe we are not! But how do self-employed tradesman get paid usually? Directly! Are they generally forced to use an umbrella company? No! They either get an accountant or do it themselves! Were we given that option? No! Do i need to go on?

Ultimately WE ARE EMPLOYED and any contract which states otherwise is horlicks! Subsequently we should, by law, all be entitled to the National Minimum Wage (calculated on the basis of our pay frequency, divided by the number of hours worked - fortnightly in our case) and if the said contract proves less favorable than the National Minimum Wage, then by law, it's overridden. Don't believe me? Go ahead, discuss it with Her Majesty's Customs and Revenue! Naturally, as employees we should all be entitled to 28 days holiday per year as well.

How come you've quoted me? I've just spent several days saying you are employed, not self employed. If you rang up HMRC and let them run through their little employment status flow chart over the phone their conclusion would be that you are employed. Therefore I don't think this will last and eventually they will be forced to bring you all under PAYE.

Why doesn't someone write to HMRC formally? Ask for a decision to be made on your employment status (knowing what the answer will be). The more people that bring this to their attention the better.

insulatorpotty · 27-11-2013, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIca

How come you've quoted me? I've just spent several days saying you are employed, not self employed. If you rang up HMRC and let them run through their little employment status flow chart over the phone their conclusion would be that you are employed. Therefore I don't think this will last and eventually they will be forced to bring you all under PAYE.

Why doesn't someone write to HMRC formally? Ask for a decision to be made on your employment status (knowing what the answer will be). The more people that bring this to their attention the better.

because as soons as quinns found out who it was they would release them from the contract to protect their own interests.

sweaty · 01-12-2013, 11:53

They had all sorts of scams years ago when I was with them. I'm sure they (or one of there umbrella companies who are sooo closely linked to them) were done for tax fraud a few years back. When on the Hays contract they used umbrella companies and you got paid per hour. Then the umbrella companies rules were changed and agency laws came in we were employed by Hays. Every day we worked we accrued holiday pay. Seems Kelly's are still bending the rules and they are probably being watched by HMRC but have been for many years. Kelly's aren't thick though and get away with it.

insulatorpotty · 25-03-2014, 21:41

i think its more a case that the gov has told the hmrc to turn a blind eye, a jobs a job and it keeps the unemployment figures down whilst the low pay and poor working conditions benefits their mates at the top of these dodgy companies.
the fixed line telecom industry has got to be one of the worst places to work these days, out of all the utilities that got privatised, i reckon we got shafted the most.

shoot2thrill · 27-03-2014, 22:09

Totaly agree, a jobs a job at the end of the day.
and at 28k a year for monday to friday with no outlay there is a hell of a lot worse out there.

judgey · 28-03-2014, 13:07

i applied online last night to Kelly communications, and have just had a missed call of them earlier, so about to give them a call now.

will update.

MrIca · 30-03-2014, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoot2thrill

Totaly agree, a jobs a job at the end of the day.
and at 28k a year for monday to friday with no outlay there is a hell of a lot worse out there.

Is it 28k after all of the deductions have come out though? Ie after they take all that off but BEFORE tax? How many hours per week do you work for that pay? Also there's no pension, no sick pay, no holiday pay. All of these things should be taken into account!

shoot2thrill · 30-03-2014, 20:05

Its before tax is that figure. But I get a nice rebate fter april.

Its hard to say how many hours a week i do, it depends what type of jobs iv had on that week. Most days start at 8am and finish between 2 to 4pm.
Some days you might have a nightmare tho and could end up finishing at 6 or 7. Just depends really.
With regards to no pension or sick pay i knew that when i signed up. Iv been self employed for last 7 years so made no difference to me.

Anyone with any experience in telecoms/sky/virgin/electrical industry will know its not a set hours type of job. You dont just down tools and go home at 5.

MrIca · 31-03-2014, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoot2thrill

Its before tax is that figure. But I get a nice rebate fter april.

Its hard to say how many hours a week i do, it depends what type of jobs iv had on that week. Most days start at 8am and finish between 2 to 4pm.
Some days you might have a nightmare tho and could end up finishing at 6 or 7. Just depends really.
With regards to no pension or sick pay i knew that when i signed up. Iv been self employed for last 7 years so made no difference to me.

Anyone with any experience in telecoms/sky/virgin/electrical industry will know its not a set hours type of job. You dont just down tools and go home at 5.

Yeah I know. I work in the telecoms industry but I'm direct labour, not a contractor. I think you guys are getting shafted if I'm honest. Was just trying to figure out by how much. I'm surprised more don't come from Kelly's/Quinn's over to BT OR when they recruit.

It's absolutely bonkers this contracting malarkey. Contractors being paid per job going into a house connecting a modem to an extension socket using a micro filter and buggering off. When if an actual company employee picked up the job they'd have to remove all star wiring, possibly run a data connection round the side of a house. Then they'd have to test with their test equipment, and if that picks up a fault they have to go and fix it! So you end up with tonnes of jobs coming in to go and clean up after contractors. It's a false economy.