General STM always enforced? - Page 22

Sephiroth · 30-10-2013, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by everyday

......

I believe BT can now claim they are faster than BT FTTC because even with STM at full they are 20 above what BT can provide in general.. for now........

I think that you meant to ype "VM" instead of "BT".

That being so, I would point out VM's 60 meg (downstream)cable offering will be faster for all FTTC customers like me who are c. 350m from the cabinet and have aluminium cable. Copper phone line customers have a bit more leeway.

We should not lose sight of the speed limitations (currently) of FTTC.

General Maximus · 30-10-2013, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We should not lose sight of the speed limitations (currently) of FTTC.

absolutely, it can be a bit of anticlimax. Everyone loves to moan about VM and all the network problems but for most (including myself) my 120mbit connection trumps anything I can get from anywhere else big time. When fttc was first made available in my area at the beginning of the year i predicted to get 53/13. Qas posted something last week which made me think about checking again to see if there had been any improvement and to my dismay the predictor now says 48/8. "Fiber" to the cabinet sounds great in theory but it would definitely be a come down for me if I went back to 50mbits because that is what I was on 2 years ago.

Realistically I think I'll be with VM for however many years until they sort out fttp. Even then, if Liberty Global go the way they want to in terms of standards and gigabit speeds get rolled out on docsis 3.1 I might end up being a lifetime VM customer

Sephiroth · 30-10-2013, 13:32

A sensible opinion, mon General. It makes VM STM irrelevant for a large chunk of people who have FTTC available to them.

qasdfdsaq · 30-10-2013, 13:35

I'd still take 48/8 over 100/5 regularly STM'd down to 84/2 which is the best VM can give me

kwikbreaks · 30-10-2013, 14:13

Others may choose based on bang per buck on downstream without any huge concerns about upstream. I doubt I've ever hit upstream STM because I don't use cloud backup or run torrents. I do have some lowish volume automated uploads and a couple of public webcams which I limit with the router.

For me to beat the pricing of VM 60/3 together with Vonage house phone I'd have to slip back to TalkTalk ADSL. Right now despite some annoying congestion issues that is the decider for me.

Kushan · 30-10-2013, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I'd still take 48/8 over 100/5 regularly STM'd down to 84/2 which is the best VM can give me

I can definitely understand why you'd take the 48/8 over what may end up as 84/2, if upload speeds are important to you. Though when the 120meg upgrade finally hits you, that then turns into 100/4, half the upload but twice the download. It's easy to see why people go for Virgin, particularly if upload speeds aren't an issue for them.

After reading the ASA decision on TBB today, I wonder how long Virgin will be able to keep STM on the upload side so high. I suppose they'll try to skirt around it by saying unlimited downloads for now.

craigj2k12 · 30-10-2013, 15:28

When I moved from VM 100mbit to Sky 80mbit I found it was a lot faster

General Maximus · 30-10-2013, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I'd still take 48/8 over 100/5 regularly STM'd down to 84/2 which is the best VM can give me

if you get stm'd a lot then yes and I probably would have agreed with you this time last year but the changes they made this year to remove daytime stm have helped no end for me. I do all my downloading during the day and play games in the evening (not hitting stm) and I work most weekends (i.e. I am not in to do anything) so although you are looking at it from an 84/2 stm'd point of view, I can look at it purely as 120/12 or 48/8 and I would rather have the former.

Chrysalis · 30-10-2013, 16:17

given the differences in peering quality, congestion levels, youtube performance etc.

I would consider a 20 mbit FTTC service superior to a 60/3 VM connection.

To me the headline max burst speed is only part of the equation.

VM

Better local loop fault resolution, VM just come out when needed no bickering, openreach fight tooth and nail to avoid a visit and then threaten large fees if they dont find anything wrong.
100% chance of connection speed been the advertised speed. FTTC depends on line quality and distance, plus DLM.
Probably cheaper for the BB component due to that rententions are a very soft touch at VM, also BT soon wont be much cheaper on voice services as this year they have very agressively increased prices.
Isp supplied router has modem mode.

BT/FTTC isps

Chances of congestion are significantly lower, most isp's generally now do not have congestion problems in their local backhauls.
Upstream from the cabinet to exchange is generally uncontended.
Higher max upstream speeds possible.
Generally consistent latency performance even tho base latency can often be higher it should at least be consistent.
Larger choice of isp's to choose from due to the wholesale aspect of xDSL.
Traffic management is mostly now a thing of the past, with only one major dsl isp left enforcing shaping on their services.
Although no modem mode on isp supplied devices one can buy their own modem to use instead if they choose to.

General Maximus · 30-10-2013, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Although no modem mode on isp supplied devices one can buy their own modem to use instead if they choose to.

even with BT? I thought that with BT and Sky you had to use their homehubs or whatever they dish out. Can you buy your own modem and router?

dilli-theclaw · 30-10-2013, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

even with BT? I thought that with BT and Sky you had to use their homehubs or whatever they dish out. Can you buy your own modem and router?

I don't use the supplied homehub on my line.

General Maximus · 30-10-2013, 16:45

sweet, something I'll remember for the future because that was one thing which was definitely putting me off. I don't like isp supplied routers whether they been shubs or otherwise

kwikbreaks · 30-10-2013, 16:52

With FTTC you get a VDSL modem and a separate router. The modem will work with any router.

From what I've read at least some of the modems seem to be locked down and you either need to "jailbreak" them or replace them to get things like the line stats.

General Maximus · 30-10-2013, 17:09

that is what I heard which is why I asked the question. I know someone who has got Sky fiber and he said he had to use wireshark to see the password which was being used on the supplied modem so he could put it on the one he bought

Kushan · 30-10-2013, 19:08

Which is a bit of a rubbish thing to have to do. It's nice that you can use your own equipment but Sky seem to be trying to force you not to, meaning at some point they may try to patch the wireshark sniffing (I don't know enough about that to state how possible this is, the point is that Sky are actively trying to stop you). It's kind of like saying that a plus point of Virgin is that you can visit the pirate bay, because there's a workaround to their block.

In any case, I think Chrysalis made a really good post there and it goes to show that it's not just a case of Virgin are terrible, everyone else is better. Each have their pros and cons and some of those pros/cons are more valuable to different people.