Drug law reform - Page 6

Russ · 30-09-2013, 04:40

For the ones that are currently illegal. That would be the price of having your drugs on general sale. They are contraband for health reasons (not just your own) so if you insist on having free access to them then you accept the responsibility for any further crimes caused as a result of using them.

30-09-2013, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

For the ones that are currently illegal. That would be the price of having your drugs on general sale. They are contraband for health reasons (not just your own) so if you insist on having free access to them then you accept the responsibility for any further crimes caused as a result of using them.

Just like booze then

TheDaddy · 30-09-2013, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zee

the way I see it is, if someone wants to do it, they're going to do it whether banned , illegal or legal, so why not legalise these drug and distribute them in controlled places like certain pharmacy's, those people using them should need to register and a track put on how much they use, if they're heavy users, the money made should be put towards helping these people cut down or stop completely.

cigarettes and alcohol do much more damage to peoples health then some the class A drugs so this is something the government should consider.

As I said these people are going to get these drugs either way, we don't know what is in street drugs, they are putting their life in further danger at least controlled drugs would be a lot more safe and 100% clean.

It was quietly trialled in Scotland around fifteen years ago and was a disaster, free heroin to all registered addicts just like it was before we joined another of America's crazy wars and was a complete disaster, the smack heads still robbed and stole and bought crack instead and got doubly high.

This isn't even counting most drug abuse happens over the course of a weekend in nightclubs and the like, unless you're going to have a chemists in the cloakroom of each club dispensing e's and cocaine on request organised crime will still have a market.

Russ · 30-09-2013, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Just like booze then

Yep.

But with more drugs being available, more crimes will be committed under their influence. If you insist on putting more of us at risk then you will be punished more harshly which I think you'll agree is fair.

30-09-2013, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Yep.

But with more drugs being available, more crimes will be committed under their influence. If you insist on putting more of us at risk then you will be punished more harshly which I think you'll agree is fair.

I do not put anyone at risk smoking a bit of weed now and then except myself

But with more drugs being available? I know you do not circle this kind of world so I forgive you for not knowing but there are plenty for everyone easily accessible to anyone already and criminals are getting rich off it. Decriminalisation and /or legalisation will not make the problem any worse anyone who wants drugs now can get them and with prices being high there is more chance of crime being committed let alone the hundreds of thousands of criminal event happening every day that never gets reported

Russ · 30-09-2013, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

I do not put anyone at risk smoking a bit of weed now and then except myself

I'm sorry I was under the impression the topic was about the suggestion of all drugs being make legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

ut with more drugs being available? I know you do not circle this kind of world so I forgive you for not knowing but there are plenty for everyone easily accessible to anyone already and criminals are getting rich off it.

You know absolutely nothing about me and my experience about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Decriminalisation and /or legalisation will not make the problem any worse anyone who wants drugs now can get them

The worrying thing is people like you genuinely believe that.

30-09-2013, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm sorry I was under the impression the topic was about the suggestion of all drugs being make legal.

You know absolutely nothing about me and my experience about this.

The worrying thing is people like you genuinely believe that.

you accused me of putting people at risk I answered that

You are right I know little about you Russ and honestly in real life I would not want to . I am sure the feeling is mutual

Do not be worried Russ people like me have no power what you got to worry about?

jamiefrost · 30-09-2013, 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Decriminalisation and /or legalisation will not make the problem any worse anyone who wants drugs now can get them and with prices being high there is more chance of crime being committed let alone the hundreds of thousands of criminal event happening every day that never gets reported

sorry but that is utter crap, try basic economics if not common sense.

Your taking something that is illegal and expensive and turning into something that is legal and cheep.

1. Anyone who was put off by it being illegal will now use. The ability to walk into a shop and purchase can only increase the number of people.
2. More people will be able to afford to use as it is cheaper
3. Some people who already use will use more now as it more affordable.

So how can this not increase use and cause more problems?

J

Russ · 30-09-2013, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

you accused me of putting people at risk I answered that

As I've said in the past if I'm referring to you directly then I'll make it clear. Each of my posts has been aimed at 'you' as in the people that want all drugs to be made legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

You are right I know little about you Russ and honestly in real life I would not want to . I am sure the feeling is mutual

The difference being don't make ignorant and arrogant assumptions based on 'little' knowledge I have on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Do not be worried Russ people like me have no power what you got to worry about?

The irony...

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

So how can this not increase use and cause more problems?

No point in using logic and common sense to some in this thread, it would be wasted. Not 'wasted' as in the effects of drug use, obviously.

peanut · 30-09-2013, 06:55

I'm more concerned about the 'if it's legal then it must be okay/safe' mentality. Smoking and alcohol is taking a lot of out the NHS, to add something else I don't think would be a good idea.

I'd expect crime would also go up if more people get addicted and with the way things are going then add cheap drugs and poverty / crime then I'd say it could well be a recipe for disaster.

30-09-2013, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

As I've said in the past if I'm referring to you directly then I'll make it clear. Each of my posts has been aimed at 'you' as in the people that want all drugs to be made legal.

The difference being don't make ignorant and arrogant assumptions based on 'little' knowledge I have on you.

The irony...

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 ----------

No point in using logic and common sense to some in this thread, it would be wasted. Not 'wasted' as in the effects of drug use, obviously.

and as I said I have not harmed anyone except myself.

You banned me once for calling you arrogant Russ remember oh and you have called me a drug addict

don't then its simple

---------- Post added at 08:03 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

sorry but that is utter crap, try basic economics if not common sense.

Your taking something that is illegal and expensive and turning into something that is legal and cheep.

1. Anyone who was put off by it being illegal will now use. The ability to walk into a shop and purchase can only increase the number of people.
2. More people will be able to afford to use as it is cheaper
3. Some people who already use will use more now as it more affordable.

So how can this not increase use and cause more problems?

J

1 read what I wrote. I clearly said decriminalised / legalised I am not saying I want all drugs legal
2 people can afford it now plenty of people spend plenty
3 maybe but at least the money wont be going into the hands of criminals

---------- Post added at 08:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut

I'm more concerned about the 'if it's legal then it must be okay/safe' mentality. Smoking and alcohol is taking a lot of out the NHS, to add something else I don't think would be a good idea.

I'd expect crime would also go up if more people get addicted and with the way things are going then add cheap drugs and poverty / crime then I'd say it could well be a recipe for disaster.

it is already there and the drugs are dirty meaning more people are likely to have problems with the dose or mix

**Maggy** · 30-09-2013, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

sorry but that is utter crap, try basic economics if not common sense.

Your taking something that is illegal and expensive and turning into something that is legal and cheep.

1. Anyone who was put off by it being illegal will now use. The ability to walk into a shop and purchase can only increase the number of people.
2. More people will be able to afford to use as it is cheaper
3. Some people who already use will use more now as it more affordable.

So how can this not increase use and cause more problems?

J

By taxing the drugs as tobacco and alcohol are currently being taxed the government can pay to EDUCATE and to help fund addiction clinics.

As for there being more people attracted to it well I suspect most of the present attraction/addiction to drug taking is down to the thrill of doing something forbidden and illicit.

Will21st · 30-09-2013, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

For the ones that are currently illegal. That would be the price of having your drugs on general sale. They are contraband for health reasons (not just your own) so if you insist on having free access to them then you accept the responsibility for any further crimes caused as a result of using them.

The hole in your reasoning is so massive I could drive a truck through it.

So what you're saying is in Russ' world GBH committed by someone under the influence of drink is a mitigating factor but under the influence of coke should lead to harsher sentences.
Doe 't really gel,does it?

By the way,illegal drugs are mostly not associated with violence,bar cocaine.Ask any cop to how many fight calls he's been and the ratio of alcohol v other drugs,I think you'll be surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It was quietly trialled in Scotland around fifteen years ago and was a disaster, free heroin to all registered addicts just like it was before we joined another of America's crazy wars and was a complete disaster, the smack heads still robbed and stole and bought crack instead and got doubly high.

Complete and utter rubbish.heroin prescription program's are a great success wherever they are implemented. Not only do most addicts greatly reduce their by-consumption but the crime figures go down massively.The Swiss run actual Heroin clinics,so successful has it been,and the people actually voted to keep the program running in a referendum. In Fact,every German police chief supports theses program's in all the major cities there and it sure isn't because crime is up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

This isn't even counting most drug abuse happens over the course of a weekend in nightclubs and the like, unless you're going to have a chemists in the cloakroom of each club dispensing e's and cocaine on request organised crime will still have a market.

Really?So people won't be able to buy their legal drugs beforehand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Yep.

But with more drugs being available, more crimes will be committed under their influence. If you insist on putting more of us at risk then you will be punished more harshly which I think you'll agree is fair.

Really,more crimes? So what crimes will that be? Please don't answer robbery and burglary as those are crimes associated with the trade. In fact drugs and violence are synonymous because of their prohibition.

Prohibition causes crime.... Fact!

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

sorry but that is utter crap, try basic economics if not common sense.

Your taking something that is illegal and expensive and turning into something that is legal and cheep.

1. Anyone who was put off by it being illegal will now use. The ability to walk into a shop and purchase can only increase the number of people.
2. More people will be able to afford to use as it is cheaper
3. Some people who already use will use more now as it more affordable.

So how can this not increase use and cause more problems?

J

Ok,so what you're saying is that as soon as Heroin is legal you will start to use it... Correct? Crack? It's legal,right?

Yeah,thought so,and neither will 97% of the population.Legal doesn't equal condoning. Legalisation is about our crime and violence problem,not about our drug problem.

jamiefrost · 30-09-2013, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

OK,so what you're saying is that as soon as Heroin is legal you will start to use it... Correct? Crack? It's legal,right?

Yeah,thought so,and neither will 97% of the population.Legal doesn't equal condoning. Legalization is about our crime and violence problem,not about our drug problem.

Way to avoid the question (nicely made up number by the way it's actually 95.32% ). It was stated that the legalization would not have any impact when it plainly would.

Your the one stating that making some thing legal means everyone will start. I never said that

Even using your made up number, suddenly 3% of the population will become drug users 10% (according to studies) will become addicted in the first year. So that's 0.3% of 60M only around 200,000. Guess it's not a problem then.

I also don't buy into the argument that people only use as it's illegal etc etc. so the numbers would fall.

Allowing easy access can only make the use of drugs more wide spread. And this can only increase the number of addicts as repeated use (it's cheep and easy now) is one of the key factors in addiction.

Yes there could be more money to fund help due to taxation etc. but there is a massive illegal trade in Alcohol and tobacco now so why would it be different for drugs?

J

30-09-2013, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

Way to avoid the question (nicely made up number by the way it's actually 95.32% ). It was stated that the legalization would not have any impact when it plainly would.

Your the one stating that making some thing legal means everyone will start. I never said that

Even using your made up number, suddenly 3% of the population will become drug users 10% (according to studies) will become addicted in the first year. So that's 0.3% of 60M only around 200,000. Guess it's not a problem then.

I also don't buy into the argument that people only use as it's illegal etc etc. so the numbers would fall.

Allowing easy access can only make the use of drugs more wide spread. And this can only increase the number of addicts as repeated use (it's cheep and easy now) is one of the key factors in addiction.

Yes there could be more money to fund help due to taxation etc. but there is a massive illegal trade in Alcohol and tobacco now so why would it be different for drugs?

J

because it is cheaper to buy it off a bootlegger