General : Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2013) Vol. 3.

[howardmicks]

Originally Posted by Chad

Feel free.

Remember however if you have a package for TV, phone and broadband you will only be able to cancel the TV part of your package.

Thanks bud

[freakgirl]

Virgin have the 12:45pm kick offs? Suddenly don't feel so bad about losing them, as i'm usually out on a Saturday afternoon

[Doug P]

Originally Posted by ocav

Incorrect. Read back through the thread, 2-3 contract lawyers have already stated that it was outside of Virgins control therefore it doesn't apply. The reason people got out for the Sky Basics was because Virgin had said no to a new carriage agreement, therefore it was within their control.

The company that their carriage agreement was with, ESPN has closed, that is outside their control. They have to make a new agreement with BT to bring what is in effect a brand new channel back. The old ESPN does not exist anymore.

I have been trying to suggest this on the other thread only this is brilliantly put... many thanks.

[Dave42]

It’s not just Virgin Media costumers who are locked out of BT Sport

August 1, 2013 by Martin Hoscik

A few days ago I looked at the frustrations of Virgin Media customers who face missing out on BT’s new sports channels when they launch today.

While they’re certainly the most voluble group missing out on the channels, they’re not the only one.

YouView customers who purchased their own boxes but have connected them to a BT broadband line also stand to miss out, even when they’re connected to the Infinity fibre broadband BT says is needed to receive the channels.

After several rounds of the channels appearing and disappearing on the EPG in recent weesk, they reappeared overnight alongside entries for BTs new 18 entertainment channels.

But despite BT’s press office last week saying a method for retail YouView users to order the sports channels would “be available until 1st August” and that BT would be emailing customers who registered “from 1st to direct them to the site”, it still isn’t possible to order them.

Calls to BT are met with a firm ‘There’s no way to order these channels for your box’ line.

With just a few hours until the big launch, it doesn’t seem YouView customers who’ve elected to save BT the costs of supplying and supporting a box will be much better off than their Virgin Media counterparts.

As a shareholder in YouView, BT could be thought to have a responsibility to ensure those customers who pay it for broadband can access the channels they’re helping to fund on their set top boxes.

But that doesn’t seem likely to happen in time for tonight’s launch.

And it’s now also looking unlikely that retail box owners who registered long before the July 31st cut-off point will enjoy the free 1 year HD pack available to customers who got their STB from BT or Sky.

There are clearly far more Sky customers than retail box owners, but it does seem somewhat odd to invest in a platform and then treat your rival’s customers better than your own.

http://www.seenit.co.uk/its-not-just...sport/0829223/

[Chad]

Originally Posted by ocav

Incorrect. Read back through the thread, 2-3 contract lawyers have already stated that it was outside of Virgins control therefore it doesn't apply. The reason people got out for the Sky Basics was because Virgin had said no to a new carriage agreement, therefore it was within their control.

The company that their carriage agreement was with, ESPN has closed, that is outside their control. They have to make a new agreement with BT to bring what is in effect a brand new channel back. The old ESPN does not exist anymore.

My understanding was the original carriage deal was always due to expire yesterday anyway. Ownership of ESPN didn’t change half way through an existing carriage deal. The reason the channel is no longer on Virgin is a contractual one. The possibility of a new deal for ESPN to remain on Virgin was never guaranteed, regardless of who owned the channel. Customers should be covered under section B – f.

Up until 2 months ago Virgin where still selling 18 month contracts, advertising ESPN free in XL, even though they knew the channel was likely to disappear from their platform within 60 to 90 days.

Of course I’d be happy to review my stance if anyone can confirm Virgins existing carriage deal with ESPN didn’t expire yesterday.

[neilo]

Originally Posted by Chad

If you are unhappy about ESPN being removed from the XL pacjage, and you are in contract term, you should be able to cancel your TV service without too much of a problem.

http://store.virginmedia.com/the-leg...es.html#ending

There are 2 sections in the terms and conditions which cover this very scenario.

Section B - f

"Some parts of the services (for example, television channels that form part of our television services and other content on, or accessible via, our television services) are supplied by other organisations. As a result, due to matters outside our reasonable control or for commercial or contractual reasons, we may change, cancel or postpone all or any component part(s) of the services without notice, but we will give you reasonable notice of any withdrawals and changes where it is possible to do so. You will be entitled to end this agreement if the changes are significant, as described in paragraph J3."

Section J - 3b

"If we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us and/or Virgin Media Payments (as applicable) at least 30 days' notice. Such notice must be given within 30 days of the increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you."

The loss of ESPN, ESPN HD, ESPN America, ESPN Classic, ESPN on demand and access to the ESPN channels via Virgin anywhere are very significant changes to your package. It's not your fault that the channels have been removed during your contract term. You didn't ask for the channels to be removed. You didn't agree to the channels being removed. The service without ESPN is not what you signed a contract for!

Remember about 7 years ago when the SKY basic channels where removed, Virgin allowed people to cancel their contracts using very similar terms and conditions.

You're quite right Chad. Others seem to think that something being outside of VM's control somehow means this term doesn't apply. Even though this is clearly covered off in the first section. If a lawyer would like to publish differing legal advice, they could do but I haven't seen it but its just down to an interpretation of 'significant'. Simples.

[ocav]

I give up, Virgin couldn't help but loose them. End of. Therefore it is out of their control. Good luck trying it on with them, but the contract is clear.

[borrissey]

James: We’re talking to BT about how we can make the forthcoming BT Sports package available to you and will update the website as soon as we have any developments.

[howardmicks]

Originally Posted by borrissey

James: We’re talking to BT about how we can make the forthcoming BT Sports package available to you and will update the website as soon as we have any developments.

thats what they have been copying and pasting and similar for the past few days

[bamav]

On the positive side - the BT Sports channels don't launch until 6pm!

Having said that, Sky Atlantic is already up and running, so no excuses there, VM!

[borrissey]

Late announcement! VM secure BT Sport free to all customers with 60MB BB and faster

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Tried another chat...

Lee: I'm very confident of BT Sport arriving in the next few days.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Chad

If you are unhappy about ESPN being removed from the XL pacjage, and you are in contract term, you should be able to cancel your TV service without too much of a problem.

http://store.virginmedia.com/the-leg...es.html#ending

There are 2 sections in the terms and conditions which cover this very scenario.

Section B - f

"Some parts of the services (for example, television channels that form part of our television services and other content on, or accessible via, our television services) are supplied by other organisations. As a result, due to matters outside our reasonable control or for commercial or contractual reasons, we may change, cancel or postpone all or any component part(s) of the services without notice, but we will give you reasonable notice of any withdrawals and changes where it is possible to do so. You will be entitled to end this agreement if the changes are significant, as described in paragraph J3."

Section J - 3b

"If we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us and/or Virgin Media Payments (as applicable) at least 30 days' notice. Such notice must be given within 30 days of the increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you."

The loss of ESPN, ESPN HD, ESPN America, ESPN Classic, ESPN on demand and access to the ESPN channels via Virgin anywhere are very significant changes to your package. It's not your fault that the channels have been removed during your contract term. You didn't ask for the channels to be removed. You didn't agree to the channels being removed. The service without ESPN is not what you signed a contract for!

Remember about 7 years ago when the SKY basic channels where removed, Virgin allowed people to cancel their contracts using very similar terms and conditions.

Putting aside any "legal" or "contractual" arguments. Can you see VM folding on their apparent stance of not accepting the loss of these channels as a reason for nullifying the contract.

If you are a sports fan you would no doubt be right to consider this to be a significant change. If not, then as some have already inferred, you would not call it significant. I have no idea what the viewing figures are for these channels but even if it was as low as 5% of their TV subcribers you could still argue it was significant because it effected a significant number of their client base. If it was as low as 2% view it on a regular basis say, then they could possibly argue the opposite.

Whatever the facts I cannot see VM giving in easily as it would open the floodgates for anyone wanting to get out of their contract, on the pretence that as a football/sports fan this was a significant change.

I don't believe the Sky basics is a good comparison though as it could have effected both football/sports watchers as well as those that don't watch sport at all. Therefore, potentially effecting a much more signicant client base.

[johnasimmons]

Originally Posted by borrissey

Late announcement! VM secure BT Sport free to all customers with 60MB BB and faster

[borrissey]

Man down!!!!

[johnasimmons]

I am outside VirginMedia HQ waiting for the BT/VM negotiation teams...