Eurozone will collapse...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

Oskar Lafontaine, the German finance minister who launched the Euro, has called for the "catastrophic" single currency to be broken up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...broken-up.html

The EU elite are to far into this now to turn back. They will let it play out until it collapses. I feel the end game is not that far off how ever now that even the person who created the dam mess thinks it should be put down.

The Germans have not yet realised that southern Europe, including France, will be forced by their current misery to fight back against German hegemony sooner or later," he said, blaming much of the crisis on Germany's wage squeeze to gain export share

The sooner the better

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Oskar Lafontaine, the German finance minister who launched the Euro, has called for the "catastrophic" single currency to be broken up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...broken-up.html

There we are - he's obviously been reading this thread.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

There we are - he's obviously been reading this thread.

I so wish some of them would, however there that thick skinned and stuck in there ways they would think we wanted the Euro to succeed

I remember this bit

Mr Lafontaine was labelled "Europe's Most Dangerous Man" by The Sun after he called for a "united Europe" and the "end of the nation state" in 1998. The euro was launched on January 1 1999, with bank notes following three years later. He later left the Social Democrats to found the Left Party.

He need's to get of his high horse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...broken-up.html

[Sirius]

Each day the pressure mounts.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22429790

The former chancellor of the exchequer, Lord Lawson, has called for the UK to leave the European Union.

Writing in the Times, he said British economic gains from an exit "would substantially outweigh the costs".

He describes the EU as "a bureaucratic monstrosity" and added that after an association with Brussels of 40 years "the case for exit is clear".

[Derek]

I see Nick Clegg was on tv this morning still peddling the lie that 3m people would be made unemployed pretty much overnight if the UK withdrew from the EU.

Originally Posted by Derek

I see Nick Clegg was on tv this morning still peddling the lie that 3m people would be made unemployed pretty much overnight if the UK withdrew from the EU.

It's not his fault, he's a creature of the EU system, thoroughly brainwashed throughout his adult life. He actually believes the EU is a great idea.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

It's not his fault, he's a creature of the EU system, thoroughly brainwashed throughout his adult life. He actually believes the EU is a great idea.

I gave up listening to that man after he sold is soul for a taste of power.

I don't know where the three million figure comes from but it's not inconceivable that there would be consequences to leaving a trade zone which accounts for around 50% of our trade, even taking into account that the trade zone in question is mired in recession. If we can keep our place within the single market then that would be swell but it seems rather pick and choose and we may not be granted it.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

It's not his fault, he's a creature of the EU system, thoroughly brainwashed throughout his adult life. He actually believes the EU is a great idea.

Yes and of course the long this 'monster' endures, the more there are who've known nothing else. Even if we leave, if the EU were to collapse it'd be catastrophic but there's still time to have an orderly restructuring, if only the Eurocrats can be made to see sense before the wheels come off...

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't know where the three million figure comes from but it's not inconceivable that there would be consequences to leaving a trade zone which accounts for around 50% of our trade, even taking into account that the trade zone in question is mired in recession. If we can keep our place within the single market then that would be swell but it seems rather pick and choose and we may not be granted it.

Of course, all those German car manufacturers would be delighted to see the UK denied an accommodation on trade. As would just about every business in Eire that exports anything to anywhere. Ditto the Spanish strawberry growers, happily planting away right now, in time to send us juicy ripe fruit by the truck load, just in time for Wimbledon.

We have a trade deficit with the EU. There is no way on Earth that the organisation would fail to agree trade terms with the UK as a part of exit agreements. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

And our trade with the EU is not 'around 50%'. It dropped below 44% last September and the indications are that it is continuing to drop. At the same time our exports to south America and the far east are increasing rapidly. For the sake of simplicity I'm not going to address the vexed question of exactly how much of our trade with the rest of the world is officially counted as an export to the EU, for the simple reason that some goods are sent from the UK to Rotterdam for onward shipment.

Heed the lessons from history: Britain has always succeeded when it has set its sights on the world. It has always become bogged down when it has allowed itself to become entangled in the affairs of continental Europe. It was ever thus, and in 50 years time we will look back and see our insane dalliance with the EU in that same context.

Surely though trade within the EU is dependent upon us supplying what is wanted not dependent on EU membership,if we leave the EU and continue to provide what is wanted then we will continue to sell it .

Originally Posted by Chris

Of course, all those German car manufacturers would be delighted to see the UK denied an accommodation on trade. As would just about every business in Eire that exports anything to anywhere. Ditto the Spanish strawberry growers, happily planting away right now, in time to send us juicy ripe fruit by the truck load, just in time for Wimbledon.

We have a trade deficit with the EU. There is no way on Earth that the organisation would fail to agree trade terms with the UK as a part of exit agreements. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

And our trade with the EU is not 'around 50%'. It dropped below 44% last September and the indications are that it is continuing to drop.

We have a trade deficit now. However as much as the EU is dropping that is not a constant. Just because it's dropping now doesn't mean it will continue to do so. When the economies in Europe recover then they'll become a massive trading block for us again. Not to mention they're in the middle of getting America to sign a free trade deal with the EU.

It's not just a case of who would want us to be their customers, it's also a case of who would want the jobs that we currently have. There will be companies in France, Germany, Spain who wouldn't mind seeing our exports hit with a tariff. We still make quite a lot of car parts for example and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that another country would want those contracts and have a equally as much as an interest in kicking us out as the car manufacturers have in keeping us in. Especially if the prospect of America opens up to them, then they won't really lose as much in terms of possible customers.

It's not just buying/selling. It's the ease in which these European companies can diversify their operations across the continent in terms of resources and staff.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

I should point out that I am not saying that we're certainly lose from leaving the EU but that's it's not so cut and dried that we'll gain either.

[Sirius]

I feel that if the Common market had stayed as the common market we would not be in the position we are in now with the smaller countries in the EU in massive debt and who owe large amounts of money to a few elite members of the Euro club.

The common market started out and should have stayed as trade system between member countries and not what it is now or what they want it to become which is a European super state, one that is if you listen to the likes of Germany something to push for.

WHY you may ask do they want a united European super state because countries like Germany are able to control the EU and by that control they would make a large amount of money, even now they already have countries who now owe them one for helping them with huge amounts of money. Money that the likes of Germany make because of there position within the EU in the first place. The smaller less powerful countries get to be told what to do, who to trade with, which country gets which contract and how much they make on that contract, who can trade with who and why, what to say publicly, when to do it and what laws they are allowed to make or not. then there is the fact that they now seem to be able to force countries to raid peoples bank accounts at will, Seems to me like a few countries now control Europe already and that is something i want non of.

Originally Posted by Damien

We have a trade deficit now. However as much as the EU is dropping that is not a constant. Just because it's dropping now doesn't mean it will continue to do so. When the economies in Europe recover then they'll become a massive trading block for us again. Not to mention they're in the middle of getting America to sign a free trade deal with the EU.

It's not just a case of who would want us to be their customers, it's also a case of who would want the jobs that we currently have. There will be companies in France, Germany, Spain who wouldn't mind seeing our exports hit with a tariff. We still make quite a lot of car parts for example and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that another country would want those contracts and have a equally as much as an interest in kicking us out as the car manufacturers have in keeping us in. Especially if the prospect of America opens up to them, then they won't really lose as much in terms of possible customers.

It's not just buying/selling. It's the ease in which these European companies can diversify their operations across the continent in terms of resources and staff.

These arguments are a busted flush, Damien. All of them were made in one form or another when the Euro was proposed and Britain indicated it would not join. Being outside the currency used by all the powerhouse economies of Europe - back in the days when they were powerhouses - was insane, we were warned, no sensible corporation would saddle itself with massive exchange risk by basing operations here when it could just as easily set up in Spain. Just try telling any of that to the people of Sunderland.

The EU is crippling itself with massive labour market regulation. It would not be at all difficult for the UK to compensate for any additional costs (whose inevitability I by no means accept, by the way) with flexibility.

[Osem]

IIRC our export figures with the EU are overstated (and consequently our non-EU exports understated) since the former appear to include products that are actually destined for non-EU countries but are shipped via Rotterdam and Antwerp.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...t-by-the-hour/