The state benefits system mega-thread.

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

but its how you try to score points by belittling my point of view Chris you do it all the time. You do not respond just to my point you then go onto to say things about how I am thinking or my motives when seriously you do not have a clue about me

Chris it appears to me that you are only interested in your own opinion and no one elses matters === things like this you recognise eh?
You seem to think you past knowledge on a subject that has changed is as relevant as upto date experience === see I can do it to if you want to play that game

You and marty argue the same point only yours seems a little more intelligent ===== hows about that one then...

I fully concur ,I tend to argue my point a little more bluntly than Chris (that is why you and me come to blows so often ,we have a similar style just opposite sides of the coin) ,Chris has obviously had a more advanced education than me ,i concider myself average in intelligence and Chris more fluent and well written .The difference between Mertles posts and Arthurs is Mertle does research his posts whereas Arthur just rants and contradicts himself sometimes

Originally Posted by Chris

... which would be a comment on what you believe my motives are, rather than a contribution to the thread.

Which, as it happens, I think is a relevant consideration, which is why I don't think twice about observing other posters' apparent motivations and moods when I post.

I think envy and hatred have played a major part in some people's contributions to this discussion. IDS has been pilloried not for making a supposedly incoherent argument on welfare but for being rich.

Well to be totally pedantic I just want to him to prove that he can live on £7.50 a day which was the thread I created. I asked you the same someone who isn't rich but you declined. He made the statement he should back it up do you not think??

the fact its appears to not be like that now Chris is not my fault

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Gary L

So why didn't he go and do his PR stunt in a jobcentre?
tell them that there's jobs out there. forget that not so long ago there wasn't, because now there's jobs galore for everyone.

There's indeed jobs galore. If people would put their energy into looking for work instead of ranting about benefit cuts they'd be working in no time.

Maybe not the dream job they always wanted,but at least a first step.

There was a time when I worked as a cleaner because times were tough and I just needed the money.No shame in that,although it was strange that most of my colleagues at the time were foreign and the English who applied and were offered the job only lasted a day or two..... must've been beneath them and the benefits were obviously sufficient to live on.

Originally Posted by martyh

I fully concur ,I tend to argue my point a little more bluntly than Chris (that is why you and me come to blows so often ,we have a similar style just opposite sides of the coin) ,Chris has obviously had a more advanced education than me ,i concider myself average in intelligence and Chris more fluent and well written .The difference between Mertles posts and Arthurs is Mertle does research his posts whereas Arthur just rants and contradicts himself sometimes

We agree for once lol

but Arthur still deserves the same amount of respect as any other member though surely?

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think envy and hatred have played a major part in some people's contributions to this discussion. IDS has been pilloried not for making a supposedly incoherent argument on welfare but for being rich.

It's incredible,really. Rather than working together and trying to raise chances for everyone and trying to motivate the country back to work all that happens is anyone who's done well gets shot down and demonised for being rich. It's really a sad state of affairs and just goes to show how much Britain has come to rely on benefits and the state.

Time to stop that addiction and I hope the Government will go much further in their welfare reforms.Just a shame the Tories have to appease the LIbDems.

Originally Posted by Will21st

It's incredible,really. Rather than working together and trying to raise chances for everyone and trying to motivate the country back to work all that happens is anyone who's done well gets shot down and demonised for being rich. It's really a sad state of affairs and just goes to show how much Britain has come to rely on benefits and the state.

Time to stop that addiction and I hope the Government will go much further in their welfare reforms.Just a shame the Tories have to appease the LIbDems.

I do not give a toss about who is in power or who makes the decisions I care about the policies they back and my view on all of the coalition is based purely on political policy. When I said he should work for free I was actually joking you know

[Qtx]

Not had many dealings with the system before but today I had to call them and I came to this conclusion.....anyone who can get an issue resolved with them in less than a day deserves a medal along with any benefits they need. It was hard enough to find a number to call. Then had the numerous levels of automated system, 28 minutes of being in a queue before being answered and told I need another department and the line going dead while they transferred me. Frustrating and after all the waiting and calls I still didn't get the issue resolved.

I can see how it can be a full time job on benefits, 9-5 dealing with DWP calls, days spent at the CAB to help fill in forms to re-apply for benefits when they rename it and make you re-apply, going to medical appointments to get paperwork to send in and have the ATOS Dr's causing you to have to do it all again, back to the CAB for help with an appeal, day spent at tribunal, another day spent chasing the DWP because they haven't paid you after the tribunal has said their initial refusal was stupid, fill in more forms because the change in benefits affects 4 other benefits so you have to re-apply so that 75p can be juggled between them, meaning you end up 30p worse off in the end, very tired and wish you was dead.

That is the kind of impression I get from one day of phonecalls and the various horror stories I have heard from people I know. Full time work seems a lot less stressful!

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

propaganda and spin I for one will not fall for it

You have to remember that IDS is making a point that whilst some workers may not be all that better off in real terms immediately ,less of their tax money is going towards state support which means that eventually more will go towards stuff it is meant to go towards ,like infrastructure and investment in industry .What better place to do that than at a work place ?.
Nobody should mind paying tax if it used correctly and efficiently for the betterment of the society ,when it is used in the amount it is for state support then people paying that tax quite rightly start to kick back because the society they are paying for is going backwards

if it only targeted the right people I would support it but it does not which spoils it imo

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Chris

No, we really aren't

Oh, we will.

The benefit reforms are polling extremely well for the Tories.

As in the 'them' team is bigger than the 'us' team?

who's going to be the referee when the time comes?

Originally Posted by Will21st

It's incredible,really. Rather than working together and trying to raise chances for everyone and trying to motivate the country back to work all that happens is anyone who's done well gets shot down and demonised for being rich. It's really a sad state of affairs and just goes to show how much Britain has come to rely on benefits and the state.

Time to stop that addiction and I hope the Government will go much further in their welfare reforms.Just a shame the Tories have to appease the LIbDems.

Quite agree .We are in a position where (according to those in this thread on benefits ) they would much sooner be working and yet instead of growing a pair and fighting for the jobs that are there they are letting thousands of foreign workers take them without a fight whilst they bemoan their loss of benefits .Where has the fight gone ? I think some are giving up far too easily

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

You have to remember that IDS is making a point that whilst some workers may not be all that better off in real terms immediately ,less of their tax money is going towards state support which means that eventually more will go towards stuff it is meant to go towards ,like infrastructure and investment in industry .What better place to do that than at a work place ?.
Nobody should mind paying tax if it used correctly and efficiently for the betterment of the society ,when it is used in the amount it is for state support then people paying that tax quite rightly start to kick back because the society they are paying for is going backwards

LOL Marty. if only that dream were to become a reality.
besides. they haven't finished yet. they've got to find more money. and there's only a certain part of society left in which to do that with.

at the moment you're just there to approve of the present measures.
but your time will come. it has to. it's the whole point of the phrase "we're all in this together"

you didn't think he didn't mean you. did you?

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

if it only targeted the right people I would support it but it does not which spoils it imo

It's virtually impossible to target a section of society without actually increasing cost and wasting more money .Back in the day all benefits used to be means tested and the cost of administering that was probably more than was paid out .

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

LOL Marty. if only that dream were to become a reality.
besides. they haven't finished yet. they've got to find more money. and there's only a certain part of society left in which to do that with.

at the moment you're just there to approve of the present measures.
but your time will come. it has to. it's the whole point of the phrase "we're all in this together"

you didn't think he didn't mean you. did you?

and which dream would that be Gary ?

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Gary L

LOL Marty. if only that dream were to become a reality.
besides. they haven't finished yet. they've got to find more money. and there's only a certain part of society left in which to do that with.

at the moment you're just there to approve of the present measures.
but your time will come. it has to. it's the whole point of the phrase "we're all in this together"

you didn't think he didn't mean you. did you?

Have they come for you yet? You sound like someone who suffers from Paranoid Delusions.

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

I do not give a toss about who is in power or who makes the decisions I care about the policies they back and my view on all of the coalition is based purely on political policy. When I said he should work for free I was actually joking you know

No,you weren't,but we both know that,don't we?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

and which dream would that be Gary ?

Your one.
the one about some money going to better places and everyone living happily ever after

In my dream I had. they were putting it all to one side and then Dave, Ian, and George did a runner with it to another country.