Eurozone will collapse...

Originally Posted by Damien

They are being raided to save their own banks, and therefore maybe their savings anyway. It's a bad decision and it's good they've ditched it and are exploring alternatives but it is a bad decision caused by an impending disaster. The consequences of no action at all could result in depositors losing far more than 10%, their savings could be wiped if the two banks go under.

The way people are portraying this is that Germany wants some money and decided to bully the poor Cypriots out of their hard-earned savings. Cyprus is in serious trouble and the idea from the EU is that they'll bail Cyprus out but effectively wanted depositors to take some of the hit, to write off some of their money instead of more of it. This was a bad idea for all the reasons given (causing a bank-run, setting a dangerous precedent) but it's not really corruption.

No, it is corruption of the worst kind. If the banks in Cyprus go under, then the deposit guarantee scheme reimburses all savers with up to €100,000. But the EUrocrats have throughout this crisis sought to make it look like no banks are actually defaulting or going under, because of the financial and political costs of it. The haircuts taken by creditors in Greece, for example, were defaults in all but name. But the lack of the name prevented default insurance schemes from paying out (and possibly being unable to pay out, precipitating a greater calamity).

Now in Cyprus, where depositors were entitled to expect their savings to be safe even if the bank went bust, they were told their savings were being tapped to rescue the bank. That is utterly perverse. It subverts an agreed procedure designed to protect private individuals from bank failure with a cobbled together procedure that made them liable for bank failure. And the snakes in Brussels have done nothing but point out that, because this scheme was devised to be delivered via the Cyprus government as a tax, it was in no way a default and so the deposit guarantee could not be invoked.

It was weaseling about with the rules in the worst possible way.

[Osem]

@ Damien

Aside from imposing an economic straightjacket on countries which could not survive it, isn't this the reason the Euro could never work as intended by its archtiects? To suppose that when times got tough (as they inevitably would), there'd be no surfacing of national rivalries, no blame game (whether rational or not), no breakdown of trust, no hatred, no anger, no retaliation, no extremism etc. on the part of the suffering populations is either naive in the extreme or something the Eurocrats were willing to gamble on avoiding to get their way.

What we're seeing here is basic human nature in action and I dare say the Eurocrats believed they could even control that, along with the shape of our bananas...

The Germans should know better than most what can happen when there's simmering resentment amongst a population. It only takes a few charismatic extremists to come out from under their stones and suddenly there's a tinderbox of hatred. Whether that hatred is rational or not, justified or not, doesn't matter and if it's further fuelled by historic grievances, so much the worse.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Damien

They are being raided to save their own banks, and therefore maybe their savings anyway. It's a bad decision and it's good they've ditched it and are exploring alternatives but it is a bad decision caused by an impending disaster. The consequences of no action at all could result in depositors losing far more than 10%, their savings could be wiped if the two banks go under.

The way people are portraying this is that Germany wants some money and decided to bully the poor Cypriots out of their hard-earned savings. Cyprus is in serious trouble and the idea from the EU is that they'll bail Cyprus out but effectively wanted depositors to take some of the hit, to write off some of their money instead of more of it. This was a bad idea for all the reasons given (causing a bank-run, setting a dangerous precedent) but it's not really corruption.

In the past before Countries joined the Eurozone they could deal with there currency and try to sort out there problems by devaluing or other options. Now there are so restricted in what they can do in there own country by the rules of the Eurozone that they are on a hiding to nothing.

The way i see it is that as soon as the EU started messing with the issues in Greece any country that had financial involvement with them would be just as badly affected.

The Eurozone is just one big pile of dominoes and as soon as one finally goes the lot will go and the sooner that happens the better. At the moment there is Germany and the other couple of elite countries who have all the control in the EU and they are growing off the back of the other lower cast countries, sooner or latter its going to BLOW.


Meanwhile

http://news.sky.com/story/1068020/cy...ls-amid-crisis

So the pressure is starting to be slowly exerted to acquire the YES answer the EU elite require.

The European Central Bank (ECB) has said it will only guarantee assistance until Monday night without a new aid programme being in place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21875246

The EU have a lot to answer for as well in this

Cypriot banks were among the bondholders who had to take a big "haircut" in the second massive bailout for Greece.

and who planned that one ?

[mertle]

hazard guess sirius bankers, bond holders, IMF, those mega rich who just incase not bond holders. Although not all mega rich abuse there position/wealth believe read its only minority who do it for ultimate power. Sadly they very powerful and able to be draft people to follow there model. I fully expect this just big game they laughing as I write.

Sadly governments fell for the bailout hook line sinker ultimately which left them vunerable. Who adviced this openly IMF that women got alot skeletons.

Now getting punished by the same ones created the 2008 banking crisis. Thats the thanks they get for bailing out those banks in trouble.

This why think whole charade been orchastrated from day 1 sirius. It might sound bit of conspiracy but fits the timelines they way those who got vested interest acting. Why force countries into spirals when mainly it was bailing out banks caused the problem.

If I am right its been clever poker hand for sure now upto governments to fight back get power back. The whole mess needs investigating people should goto jail for long long time if my feelings correct..

I have wondered if the ultimate goal is only conclusion is a war but why. Then say why in age nucleur would they want a war.

Wide-scale nationalisation of private property is every bit as insidious as expropriation of private bank deposits.

On the plus side, however, the population of Cyprus is now two-to-one in favour of outright withdrawl not just from the Screw-ro, but the whole stinking "Union"

The pensions thing seem to be proposed by the Government and not the EU. Again this is all because the EU isn't going as far to bail the entire country out as the debt would be so high the bailout would be pretty much equal to the countries entire GDP. Cyprus let it's banks get so big, inflated by Russian money, that it now threatens to bring them all down. The EU haven't dealt with this well but they share the blame with Cyprus in the first place.

Looks like Moscow isn't going to help either according to reports this morning so Cyprus' hope for a goldilocks solution is off the table. They're going to take a hit. Let the banks go under but protect the €100,000 and under depositors. Cyprus didn't like that because it would kill their offshore banking industry but if Moscow isn't willing to save their own tax-dodging millionaires then why should the EU?

[Osem]

Makes you wonder why was Cyprus ever admitted into the Euro-club doesn't it. The empire builders well and truly took their eyes off the ball for some strange reason...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...euro-area.html

Originally Posted by Osem

Makes you wonder why was Cyprus ever admitted into the Euro-club doesn't it. The empire builders well and truly took their eyes off the ball for some strange reason...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...euro-area.html

..

Recall that Iceland was far better able to withstand the collapse of its banking industry precisely because it hadn't adopted the euro and could devalue its own currency.

It helped that they basically screwed over Foreign depositors.

[Osem]

Yes, being free from the Euro shackles clearly has its advantages and Iceland did what they needed to do in their own best interests.

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes, being free from the Euro shackles clearly has its advantages and Iceland did what they needed to do in their own best interests.

What I mean is that he missed the part where Iceland didn't bother to protect being who saved money in Icelandic banks who were not from Iceland. It's not clear if such an option is on the table for Cyprus...

[Osem]

I know what you meant. I can't see how that option could be open to Cyprus given that the 100k deposit protection scheme is supposed to guarantee securtity for all investors below that amount, which would be the vast majority I'm sure.

IIRC Iceland has repaid much of the debts owed but is doing so at its own pace.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...90R0I720130128

Originally Posted by Osem

I know what you meant. I can't see how that option could be open to Cyprus given that the 100k deposit protection scheme is supposed to guarantee securtity for all investors below that amount, which would be the vast majority I'm sure.

The 100k can probably be swung. It's those in the minority who have huge amounts in the banks that would be the problem and a industry Cyprus presumably wants to keep....

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

Wide-scale nationalisation of private property is every bit as insidious as expropriation of private bank deposits.

On the plus side, however, the population of Cyprus is now two-to-one in favour of outright withdrawl not just from the Screw-ro, but the whole stinking "Union"

Excellent

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...lout-live.html

Looks like deal is emerging as:
Laiki break up
Deposit levy on all above 100k -more than 9.9pc
Capital controls -very tough for all banks and deposits
Generic bank resolution laws if other banks in Cyprus get into further trouble

Rumours circulating that the Troika has increased the amount it demands Cyprus to raise by a whopping €0.9bn. They're havin a giraffe.

Meanwhile, Cypriot satirists are hard at it: