What a hypocrite

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I think the only thing that l can think about is the large contract that we won from abroad for fighter jets l believe - but we don't give aid to that conntry - do we?

Within the next couple of weeks, we will have the bitter winter coming up and the poor of this country, the vulnerable will be scared to put there heating on - will David Cameron think about giving them FREE warmth, l dobt that very much.

you mean this one ,we lost out to france to supply India with some fighter jets ,so in return we forced India to accept our aid despite them not wanting or needing it

I think he meant Saudi Arabia, not India...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I think the only thing that l can think about is the large contract that we won from abroad for fighter jets l believe - but we don't give aid to that conntry - do we?

Within the next couple of weeks, we will have the bitter winter coming up and the poor of this country, the vulnerable will be scared to put there heating on - will David Cameron think about giving them FREE warmth, l dobt that very much.

Here's an example

http://m.guardian.co.uk/environment/...anddevelopment

I remember reading that for every dollar we give Africa in aid we take four out in export tax, how about we trade on a level playing field and we'll keep the aid cash.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Sorry but i think our poor come first.

Wasn't the approach we took when we had the Empire was it? I just don't think we can throw around terms like moral obligation when you look back at our history and some of the more shameful aspects of the Empire. We used other countries resources to enrich us and we still feel the benefits of that whilst other countries arguably suffered the drawbacks.

We can say stuff the rest, it's about us but let's not pretend it's a moral obligation driving us to do it.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Also TheDaddy makes a good point that it's often politicking and self-interest that drives aid donations anyway and besides it's not like it's a massive part of the budget.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Damien

Wasn't the approach we took when we had the Empire was it? I just don't think we can throw around terms like moral obligation when you look back at our history and some of the more shameful aspects of the Empire. We used other countries resources to enrich us and we still feel the benefits of that whilst other countries arguably suffered the drawbacks.

We can say stuff the rest, it's about us but let's not pretend it's a moral obligation driving us to do it.

Does not feed our pensioners or heat there homes. I am sick and tired of hearing how we send millions abroad each year and then we see news stories of pensioners dying because they don't have enough money to eat or to heat there homes.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Hugh, you are correct. The deal was done recently, David Cameron had a smile on his face when he shook the persons hand.

Trouble is parts of the deal will probably need the help of oversea's countries. As that is where all the top labour comes from - everyone has moved abroad.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Does not feed our pensioners or heat there homes. I am sick and tired of hearing how we send millions abroad each year and then we see news stories of pensioners dying because they don't have enough money to eat or heat there homes.

People are dying there too. There are people dying from simply not being able to afford antibiotics or other medications, from a lack of clean water or a infrastructure to support them. These people are not living it up whilst our pensioners suffer. That's not the choice that has been made. It's just an emotional appeal to make it seem like those who support foreign aid are doing so at the expense of the old people dying here.

News stories don't make the whole picture but we do have social safety nets and the examples of people dying from a lack of food(?!) are examples of the system failing not examples of there not being enough money. However, if there isn't a enough money then let's ask for our taxes to be raised because cutting foreign aid isn't going to do enough.

Originally Posted by Damien

People are dying there too. There are people dying from simply not being able to afford antibiotics or other medications, from a lack of clean water or a infrastructure to support them. These people are not living it up whilst our pensioners suffer. That's not the choice that has been made. It's just an emotional appeal to make it seem like those who support foreign aid are doing so at the expense of the old people dying here.

News stories don't make the whole picture but we do have social safety nets and the examples of people dying from a lack of food(?!) are examples of the system failing not examples of there not being enough money. However, if there isn't a enough money then let's ask for our taxes to be raised because cutting foreign aid isn't going to do enough.

don't you think there is a principle at stake though .At home there are stringent cuts because we don't have money and yet our government decide to ringfence foriegn aid .Giving the impression that other countries are more important than ours

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

People are dying there too. There are people dying from simply not being able to afford antibiotics or other medications, from a lack of clean water or a infrastructure to support them. These people are not living it up whilst our pensioners suffer. That's not the choice that has been made. It's just an emotional appeal to make it seem like those who support foreign aid are doing so at the expense of the old people dying here.

News stories don't make the whole picture but we do have social safety nets and the examples of people dying from a lack of food(?!) are examples of the system failing not examples of there not being enough money. However, if there isn't a enough money then let's ask for our taxes to be raised because cutting foreign aid isn't going to do enough.

Well said, it's not a one or the other choice and these grotty little rags that peddle it as such are just attempting to create an agenda to fill the void left since they stopped reporting news. I wonder why it is the never mention the four million children alive today thanks to aid funded vaccination or all the schools built.

---------- Post added at 21:24 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

don't you think there is a principle at stake though .At home there are stringent cuts because we don't have money and yet our government decide to ringfence foriegn aid .Giving the impression that other countries are more important than ours

Yes so important we 'give' them less than 1% & I don't even trust that figure, I think it's less.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yes so important we 'give' them less than 1% & I don't even trust that figure, I think it's less.

Then we need to have cast iron guarantees of trade to get a return .

and you do realise that the budget is going up don't you ,by 2015 it will be level or above the budget of the police

Originally Posted by Damien

Well the UK has made a handsome profit from exploiting places around the world so we probably do have a moral obligation to help the world's poor...

No, we dont. We have an obligation to help our own.
Its about time we stopped worrying about other countries and sorted out our own.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Then we need to have cast iron guarantees of trade to get a return .

and you do realise that the budget is going up don't you ,by 2015 it will be level or above the budget of the police

You do realise that politicians are full of bull plop don't you, going up, if it's going anywhere it's going down

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...m-6282998.html

Originally Posted by Paul M

No, we dont. We have an obligation to help our own.
Its about time we stopped worrying about other countries and sorted out our own.

Exactly ,what appears to have sparked this outburst of morality from Cameron is that other countries are falling behind on their bribes so we have to pick up the slack

Originally Posted by Paul M

No, we dont. We have an obligation to help our own.
Its about time we stopped worrying about other countries and sorted out our own.

We can do both and we can worry about other countries for reasons that don't include invading and exploiting them (although we still do the latter).

'Our own' doesn't make sense anymore anyway. What happens in one country can harm 'our own' too.

[AdamD]

I agree we can do both, but I think 50% of the aid budget should be used for our own people.
Or better yet, give the 50% that's normally sent to other countries, to those charities who specialise in helping poor countries, at least that way, in theory, less money would be wasted or go to corrupt government/army officials