Baby dies after home circumcision

Originally Posted by nomadking

What about those that have(or had) human sacrifice as part of it. In theory you could create or modify one and those practices should be allowed because they are part of a person's beliefs.

In whose theory?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Zee

What if? its not though... its cutting off the foreskin due to health reasons.

That is NOT the reason for it being done.

[Osem]

I wonder if this is the HIV study being referred to:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4371384.stm

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's an interesting approach to the subject, but it very much reflects your own cultural mores. It would be difficult indeed for you to show that a view from the outside such as this could be allowed to over-ride the rights of parents, exercised for millennia, to choose how to bring up their children.

But the thing is, I'm just reading a forum where circumcised man are complaining about lack of sensation during sex. Why is it right for parents to make this decision for their sons? And why then, is it not right (i.e. specifically
forbidden in some countries) to perform a related procedure on females

The reality is that we are allowing some of these rituals for no reason other than that we always have, and if someone were to invent it now, we would call it mutilation, because that's what it is: mutilation of a child that has not not consented. Now, i'm not calling for a ban, because a ban would be unworkable and only cause resentment, but I do think it's right people think about what it means for a parent to decide it's alright to remove part of a boy's anatomy.

Originally Posted by Zee

not at all no. studies show removing the foreskin reduces risk of HIV by up to 60%.

it reduces the risk of UTI and also reduces the risk of getting cancer in the penis. How is that rubbish?
.

No ,there is no definitive evidence either way so it's no good quoting medical reasons .The only reason why babies are routinely circumcised is for religious reasons .

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

In whose theory?

If a practice HAS to be allowed, merely because it's a religious practice, then any religious practice must be allowed, Otherwise selected practices can indeed be banned.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If a practice HAS to be allowed, merely because it's a religious practice, then any religious practice must be allowed, Otherwise selected practices can indeed be banned.

you cant compare any religious practice to circumcision...

Originally Posted by nomadking

That is NOT the reason for it being done.

why not? why is it such a bad thing?

Originally Posted by martyh

No ,there is no definitive evidence either way so it's no good quoting medical reasons .The only reason why babies are routinely circumcised is for religious reasons .

well its a fact that it is defiantly cleaner

Originally Posted by Zee

What if? its not though... its cutting off the foreskin due to health reasons.

no it's not ,in Judaism it is a promise between Abraham and God no other reason.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Zee

well its a fact that it is defiantly cleaner

You calling me dirty ?

Originally Posted by nomadking

If a practice HAS to be allowed, merely because it's a religious practice, then any religious practice must be allowed, Otherwise selected practices can indeed be banned.

I'm not the best person to answer that, seeing as I've not argued that any practice must be allowed because it's religious.

Come to think of it, who did raise that?

[Zee]

Originally Posted by martyh

no it's not ,in Judaism it is a promise between Abraham and God no other reason.

that's in Judaism... not in Islam.

What are we talking about here? Judaism? Islam? or general?

you need to all try to make your posts clear.

In Judaism the rabbi uses his mouth to draw blood after the cut apparently. Not in Islam.

Also in Judaism I think it needs to be done by their religious leader, not in Islam, it can be done by anyone as long as they are a professional, like a doctor and its performed in a professional place such as a hospital....

Circumcision is mandatory in Judaism, optional in Islam.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

no it's not ,in Judaism it is a promise between Abraham and God no other reason.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------



You calling me dirty ?

Im not calling you dirty directly don't try to twist my words but I do know it is definitely cleaner then an uncircumcised penis.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm not the best person to answer that, seeing as I've not argued that any practice must be allowed because it's religious.

Come to think of it, who did raise that?

Shall I put it in the back of the net then?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Chris

Perhaps you could provide an example of a religion that actually does this, then we might have at least half a chance of an intelligent discussion?

There is no example because it's a what if. the circumcision could have been a what if too if they originally done the cutting off of the middle finger.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Zee

What if? its not though... its cutting off the foreskin due to health reasons.

Is it?

[Zee]

Originally Posted by Gary L

There is no example because it's a what if. the circumcision could have been a what if too if they originally done the cutting off of the middle finger.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------



Is it?

Do you understand the reason why it is done? go and research why it is done in Islam and then come back and post your stupid "what if" ...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm not the best person to answer that, seeing as I've not argued that any practice must be allowed because it's religious.

Come to think of it, who did raise that?

Saying it shouldn't be banned or even criticised because it's a religious practice is EXACTLY the same as saying it should be allowed because it's a religious practice. You have been the one complaining when others consider it in principle to be 'barbaric'.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Zee

Do you understand the reason why it is done? go and research why it is done in Islam and then come back and post your stupid "what if" ...

Why do I have to consider any religious beliefs. or the ins and outs of any religion. for me to have an opinion of circumcising a baby?

because you want it all to be about Islam?