SD : TV price rises

[denphone]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

Yes. Let's make it even more complicated

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------


You mean just like they're having to now explain the new one. Hardly much different, is it? Six of one... etc.


So just like Reminders then

l think you will find in the last poll dear Carl that the customers wanting reminders were in the majority.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by andy_m

That's exactly my point, Carl. They've changed the bill because they were fed up explaining it, and find themselves in a position where they're still having to explain it.

So they can't win whatever they do; which was actually my point

Should have just explained it properly in the first place and left the silent majority (ie. all those who weren't complaining) with the more transparent breakdown of pricing that their inaction suggested they were happy with.

Hmm. Maybe.

I agree with you about reminders so I'm not sure why you've brought that up.....

Merely as another example of VM listening to it's customers; something a lot of people say they never do

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

l think you will find in the last poll dear Carl that the customers wanting reminders were in the majority.

Which national poll of all VM users was that then? Because I certainly don't remember being asked. Could you perhaps provide a link to the final results posted somewhere? Thanks.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by andy_m

Should have just explained it properly in the first place and left the silent majority (ie. all those who weren't complaining) with the more transparent breakdown of pricing that their inaction suggested they were happy with.

Ah, so you are suggesting Virgin Media ignore the vocal minority when it comes to their products?

[andy_m]

No, I'm suggesting they take into account their entire customer base when making decisions, not just those who make the most noise. That might already be happening, doubtless you'll tell me it is. But I never once complained about the old bill, I have spent 40 minutes on the phone having somebody go through the new bill. The cs rep was excellent, so I fail to see why this excellence wasn't brought to bear on those who originally had the problem. Perception is everything, and it seems to me that I never had a problem with the old bill but because of a vocal minority Virgin changed things around meaning they've been quietened, which is fine except now I'm the one with the problem, which doesn't seem right or fair. Had they just spent the time and patience with the original complainants that they eventually had to spend with me they'd have two happy customers rather than two who have now both had cause for complaint. Really poor knee jerk way to deal with things.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by andy_m

But I never once complained about the old bill, I have spent 40 minutes on the phone having somebody go through the new bill.

And lots of customers did the exact same thing with the old bills.

and it seems to me that I never had a problem with the old bill but because of a vocal minority Virgin changed things around meaning they've been quietened, which is fine except now I'm the one with the problem, which doesn't seem right or fair.

Which I'm sorry to say seems like that's an 'I'm alright Jack' type attitude.

No company can survey their entire customer base, however VM do survey as many of those customers that contact VM as is possible to understand why they've contacted VM and if there is anything they could do to improve services so that contact may not be needed again.

They then have teams that use the feedback to to extrapolate it to the whole customer base, to get the business to make the changes that will improve things.

Had they just spent the time and patience with the original complainants that they eventually had to spend with me they'd have two happy customers rather than two who have now both had cause for complaint.

VM did spend time and patience with the original complainants - I should know, I used to work on the phone, and dealt with lots of call per day of 'I don't understand my bill, it's says I'm being charged 'X' but your website it's 'Y''

Really poor knee jerk way to deal with things.

I can assure you the bill format change was not a knee jerk reaction, but was based off many years of complaints about the bill format. However there were limited options to change how the bills are put together due to the way the system works.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

Oh forgot to add, the new bill format was piloted in some areas of the country before launch too, and was closely monitored to see if caused an increase in calls with people saying they didn't understand it. As far as I know calls in to get the bill explained went down

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by andy_m

No, I'm suggesting they take into account their entire customer base when making decisions, not just those who make the most noise. That might already be happening, doubtless you'll tell me it is. But I never once complained about the old bill, I have spent 40 minutes on the phone having somebody go through the new bill. The cs rep was excellent, so I fail to see why this excellence wasn't brought to bear on those who originally had the problem. Perception is everything, and it seems to me that I never had a problem with the old bill but because of a vocal minority Virgin changed things around meaning they've been quietened, which is fine except now I'm the one with the problem, which doesn't seem right or fair. Had they just spent the time and patience with the original complainants that they eventually had to spend with me they'd have two happy customers rather than two who have now both had cause for complaint. Really poor knee jerk way to deal with things.

Well put Andy.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I can assure you the bill format change was not a knee jerk reaction, but was based off many years of complaints about the bill format. However there were limited options to change how the bills are put together due to the way the system works.

Then maybe the whole system should have been changed? The fact is, detailed transparency is missing from the new system. That lack of detailed information has been highlighted by people wanting a breakdown of the forthcoming price rises. The old system, clunky as it was, could have provided that breakdown; the new system can't. It looks like the people responsible for the new system didn't think it through properly.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Then maybe the whole system should have been changed? The fact is, detailed transparency is missing from the new system. That lack of detailed information has been highlighted by people wanting a breakdown of the forthcoming price rises. The old system, clunky as it was, could have provided that breakdown; the new system can't. It looks like the people responsible for the new system didn't think it through properly.

We've been over this. The underlying system is still the same and one which Telewest introduced, because it not only controls the bills, but also the TV, Broadband and Phone provisioning and quite a lot of other things too. http://telecoms.cbronline.com/news/v...ffering-011111

The only change that has been made is to the physical bill format - because that is what customers were saying they didn't like.

To change the whole system would probably cost millions of pounds and be a multi-year project.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The only change that has been made is to the physical bill format.
.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my interpretation of that is that the information is still there?

If so, why can't it be made available to customers upon request?

[BenMcr]

Maybe I'm wrong, but my interpretation of that is that the information is still there?

The detail bears no relation to the prices VM actually charge, and haven't done so for YEARS. I think the last time VM actually charged the system prices for broadband was in 2007

Originally Posted by passingbat

If so, why can't it be made available to customers upon request?

If you want the detail, it's on the printed VAT bills

[jonbxx]

I'm not sure I'm getting the fact that the older bill style was more transparent. Yes, you're seeing how much each component costs but then you have this bundle discount lumped in there. How much of this discount goes towards each part of the package? Does this change depending on costs? Do we really need this info at all?

I'm with Ben on this one - you have a package price from VM. VM obviously want people on packages for financial forecasting reasons. How VM portion out the income from your bill to various parts of the company isn't really relevant as long as you get the services you need

[tycho]

Originally Posted by paultrademark

So what about the early TiVo adopters, will they see bigger increases to bring into line the £3 per account, £3 per box, £5 per box all being charged at the latter?

Originally Posted by BenMcr

For someone with £3 per account and two TiVo boxes it would increase their bill by £7 before any other changes

As that isn't happening, the answer is no.

So - WHAT EXACTLY will happen to those with 2 Tivo's, who currently pay £3 per account? A decision must have already been made by VM about this? I'm very interested in this specific scenario as it applies to me!

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by tycho

So - WHAT EXACTLY will happen to those with 2 Tivo's, who currently pay £3 per account? A decision must have already been made by VM about this? I'm very interested in this specific scenario as it applies to me!

There is a price increase that's included in the total price change you will be notified about - however the struture of the TiVo charges hasn't changed.

So if you pay per account, you continue to pay per account.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If you want the detail, it's on the printed VAT bills

So I'd have to change back to printed bill and lose my e-billing discount?

Why can't these be made available via e-billing?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

So I'd have to change back to printed bill and lose my e-billing discount?

Why can't these be made available via e-billing?

The ebilling system is tied into the normal billing run, so shows what the normal printed bills show.

The VAT bills are a special run for the small set of customers that require them and are received after the normal bills/ebills are

[andy_m]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I'm not sure I'm getting the fact that the older bill style was more transparent. Yes, you're seeing how much each component costs but then you have this bundle discount lumped in there. How much of this discount goes towards each part of the package? Does this change depending on costs? Do we really need this info at all?

I'm with Ben on this one - you have a package price from VM. VM obviously want people on packages for financial forecasting reasons. How VM portion out the income from your bill to various parts of the company isn't really relevant as long as you get the services you need

Well a bill that has the individual prices for each service and then a bundle discount should allow a customer to mentally remove the discount and then know what it would cost them if they wanted to drop a service. That's transparency. It doesn't, I accept that it probably can't, but I don't need to be accused of having an "I'm alright, Jack " attitude for expressing my disappointment that Virgin are incapable of providing the sort of information that everyone of their competitors manages.