EU Budget

MovedGoalPosts · 31-10-2012, 22:50

I see labour have combined with conservative rebels to vote against any budget increase for the EU, even if such increase is theoretically of inflation only increase.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20157063

There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in the labour point of view. For a party that lost control of it's own spending and allowed vast increases when they were in power, and when they also seem to argue that coalition cuts are too harsh, it seems to me they are now pushing for something that they would not have done if in power themselves?

On the other hand the conservatives in particular seem to be almost giving in to EU if they say the best deal they could hope to achieve was inflation neutral. Why is it acceptable to allow the bloated EU to spend more freely than national government can?

It strikes me as odd that the vote against the government was in fact only lost by such a shallow margin. There should have been a much larger conservative rebellion.

It would appear to me that Cameron, whilst trying to hide behind the veil of an inflation neutral budget being the best result he could achieve, is in fact pandering to, rather than standing up to the largely unaccountable Europe. But then maybe Cameron has found he has as little say over what the "bigger government" of the EU does to him, as us little people who vote in the UK actually have of what government does to us.

**Chris** · 01-11-2012, 08:01

A lot more Tories were sympathetic to the motion that was carried last night, but wouldn't vote for it because their hatred of Labour is even stronger. This was a cynical piece of politics by the two Eds. Both of them sat in a government that handed ever more money and sovereignty to Brussels over 13 years and both of them are still pro-EU now. But regardless of their motivation, they delivered the correct answer last night. Who cares if we're the only country saying it, the fact is, if the EU is a credible organisation it can't indulge in special pleading and insist it deserves a significant budget increase at a time when its members are decreasing theirs.

We can also hope that now the genie is out of the lamp, Liebour finds it harder to row back as far as it might like and the Commons in general becomes a more Eurosceptic place. It will certainly better reflect the will of the British people of it does.

**Damien** · 01-11-2012, 08:07

Yeah it's stupid. I did wonder how the Tory front bench lost the vote, can't believe Labour are on the side of the Euro-sceptics!

**Chris** · 01-11-2012, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah it's stupid. I did wonder how the Tory front bench lost the vote, can't believe Labour are on the side of the Euro-sceptics!

They're not on the side of the Euro sceptics - they're simply trying to make themselves look like they're on the side of budget-squeezed families. It's for domestic consumption. It might come back to bite them on the bum when they're invited to either support or to vote down whatever deal Cameron eventually comes back with though. That vote will be binding, which will make it a lot harder for them to indulge in politicking.

Meanwhile, if Cameron has any wits at all, he will use this vote to harden his negotiating position. At present his starting point (a real terms freeze) is too weak. Unless he's prepared to give absolutely no ground whatsoever, he is bound to have to shift even a little, which will result in an above-inflation increase in the EU budget. If he goes in demanding a cut, then a freeze becomes his (slightly) more reasonable compromise offer.

01-11-2012, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

The two eds certainly take the prize for hypocracy as it was their party that gave away most of our rebate to try and buy TB the EU presidency. (He's still angling for that even now)

It's all pie in the sky anyway. The only way we'll get a cut in our contribution to the EU is to get out.

Mark my words: Cameron will go to Brussells, get royally stitched up and come back claiming he has "The best deal for UK taxpayers" and we ONLY have to pay X% above inflation for the next trillion years.

The real way to play our winning hand, being a major paymaster of the EU, is simply to say that we'll stop writing the EU ANY cheques until a substantial cut is decided, leave them to stew and come home. It's what the Iron Lady would have done.

Agree 100%

Osem · 01-11-2012, 14:54

Sounds like same old Labour to me - political posturing and hypocrisy born out of expediency. Not satisfied with 13 years of lies, sleaze and spin, these people will say anything to get back into power.

01-11-2012, 18:03

putting aside the hypocritical voting for now ,Cameron is fighting a losing battle ,he will be fighting against all the countries who get more out of the EU than they put in ,in monetary terms ,and they aren't likely to vote for a freeze .He's far better off concentrating his efforts on getting some of our sovereign rights back or just plain getting us out .

Considering that it was labour that gave away our EU rebate won by Maggie i think that they have dug a humongous hole they will find hard to get out of

01-11-2012, 18:09

But the UK is not the only country wanting a cut or freeze it is a question of who will have the backbone to stick to what their voters want. Personally i want out of the EU for every bit of good it might do it does a lot of damage and costs an increasing amount to do it. Problem is that if we were out of the EU where would our washed up politicians go to keep their snout in the trough and for thaat reason we will stay in.

01-11-2012, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

But the UK is not the only country wanting a cut or freeze it is a question of who will have the backbone to stick to what their voters want. Personally i want out of the EU for every bit of good it might do it does a lot of damage and costs an increasing amount to do it. Problem is that if we were out of the EU where would our washed up politicians go to keep their snout in the trough and for thaat reason we will stay in.

trouble is out of the 27 nations that have to sign 17 of them are net beneficiaries and want it raised .

01-11-2012, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Another reason to shed ourselves of the leeches.

Damn right ,we are in a situation right now where a handful of countries are supporting the majority of members who don't see any need to better themselves because they know that they can out vote everyone else and get more money

slowcoach · 02-11-2012, 01:37

We don't need the EU, we can waste money ourselves without any problem. LINK

02-11-2012, 02:40

If i had my way we would be out tomorrow i really don't see any longterm benefit in remaining within this behemoth of a beaurocracy that is corrupt as well. Getting out of the EU doesn't mean we suddenly become unable to trade with europe and i don't think it would make much difference in trade terms.

Itshim · 02-11-2012, 11:54

For once I find myself on what seems to be the majority of posts here. The sooner the UK pulls out the better

Osem · 02-11-2012, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim

For once I find myself on what seems to be the majority of posts here. The sooner the UK pulls out the better

See you're never too old to see sense... well unless your name is "ArthurGray @ CloudCuckooLand.com"...

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

If i had my way we would be out tomorrow i really don't see any longterm benefit in remaining within this behemoth of a beaurocracy that is corrupt as well. Getting out of the EU doesn't mean we suddenly become unable to trade with europe and i don't think it would make much difference in trade terms.

You mean something like we were told we were going to be joining back in Ted Heath's day?