2 Police Officers shot and killed in Manchester

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Sirius

no one said you did ?

I know who he meant though which shows how much of this thread had been read before the comment.

The murderer ( who I refuse to name as it would be offensive in the context of this thread ) needs putting down nothing less but we know it will not happen as the dogooders will seek to rehabilitate him.

Originally Posted by Peter_

I know who he meant though which shows how much of this thread had been read before the comment.

Do you now ,it may surprise you to know that i hadn't given you a thought.Anyway i'm not going to turn this thread into a bickerfest .It would appear that in this thread our thoughts are as one so peace out

[Vieil Homme]

He's been charged with the shooting of four people. When this low life gets life it will be all about his human rights. As far as I'm concerned as soon as you have been found guilty of killing somebody you loose your human rights.

What about the rights of the four people he has killed, sorry charged with killing as he has not been found guilty as yet, he has his rights

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

He's been charged with the shooting of four people. When this low life gets life it will be all about his human rights. As far as I'm concerned as soon as you have been found guilty of killing somebody you loose your human rights.

What about the rights of the four people he has killed, sorry charged with killing as he has not been found guilty as yet, he has his rights

To be honest i bet the human rights of the victims will not be even considered whilst his will be..

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by martyh

[/COLOR]and i notice that the usual police hating suspects are absent from the thread

Well I don't know who you mean. Is there anyone on CF who "hates" the police?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

Do you now ,it may surprise you to know that i hadn't given you a thought.Anyway i'm not going to turn this thread into a bickerfest .It would appear that in this thread our thoughts are as one so peace out

No need to as this person needs to be put away forever without any possibility of parole.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Well I don't know who you mean. Is there anyone on CF who "hates" the police?

No as it would be so obvious.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Do you think handling a fire arm is just a case of training somebody how to pull the trigger?

No. They need to aim first

Originally Posted by Pierre

I doubt we could afford the continuous training and assessment required to have all of our officers armed, or do you suggest something like a 3 day training course with a refresher every year?

Again, with the exception of a handful of countries the UK is one of the very few not to have an armed Police force or at least easy access to firearms. All those forces manage it so why couldn't the UK?

Currently a 3 week course can take someone who has never handled a gun before into being proficient with pistol, carbine, taser and baton gun. A 3 or 4 day course focusing on defensive tactics and safe handling and use would be achievable. A day or half day refresher every six months wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility either.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I have to question the motives of the beat officer that requests the use of a weapon, probably been watching too many american cop shows.

My motives are wanting to go home to my family in one piece.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I'd really love to know how many times the police, in the UK, actually do come up against "axe wielding thugs"

Well with a range of approx 35ft unless the knife and axe wielding thugs are the last of the mohicans you should be able to stop them.

Actually more like 20 feet. And axe wielding thugs, in my experience so far twice, plus numerous knifes and swords, a home made morning star, stun gun and numerous hammers, baseball bats and other goodies.

Plus if a barb misses, he is wearing heavy clothing or for some other reason your kind of stuffed. If the first shot from a glock misses you have another 16 to use.

Originally Posted by Chris

Note, however, that the BBC also observes this afternoon that the idea of routine arming enjoys really rather low levels of support amongst the police themselves, comments from serving officers in this thread notwithstanding.

Rather low amongst the officers at a rank where they still own and wear a tunic... At the sharp end it's a little higher. And the last Fed survey didn't exist in Scotchland but the stories I'm hearing from down south would seem to suggest the polling wasnt exactly exhaustive when it came to front line officers and was more concentrated on CID and office dwellers.

Originally Posted by Sirius

To be honest i bet the human rights of the victims will not be even considered whilst his will be..

Yep. I'm sure his Xbox, gym, library and bed are all being warmed up for him at HMP Hilton now where he'll be treated like royalty, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes an outburst of some sort at his court appearance today.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Derek

My motives are wanting to go home to my family in one piece.

.

You should be fine, a career in the police doesn't register anywhere on the most dangerous jobs list.

http://yahoo.careerbuilder.co.uk/Art...lr=int_ukyahoo

You family would be more worried if you worked on trawler or a building site.

Even in America, where guns are prevelant police only just get into the top ten

1.Fishers and related fishing workers, at a rate of 116 deaths per 100,000
2.Logging workers, at a rate of 91 deaths per 100,000
3.Aircraft pilots and flight engineers, at a rate of 71 deaths per 100,000
4.Farmers and ranchers, at a rate of 41 deaths per 100,000
5.Mining machine operators, at a rate of 38 deaths per 100,000
6.Roofers, at a rate of 32 deaths per 100,000
7.Refuse and recyclable material collectors, at a rate of 29 deaths per 100,000
8.Drivers / sales workers and truck drivers, at a rate of 21 deaths per 100,000
9.Industrial machinery repair and installation, at a rate of 20 per 100,000
10.Police and sheriff's patrol officers, at a rate of 19 per 100,000

source:http://criminologycareers.about.com/...ce-Careers.htm

Sleep easy.

[Russ]

I'm sure those stats will bring a lot of comfort to those 2 women's families.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm sure those stats will bring a lot of comfort to those 2 women's families.

Of course they wont, but that's not the context with which I was using the stats and you know it.

So no real need to point that out was there?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You should be fine, a career in the police doesn't register anywhere on the most dangerous jobs list.

Thanks for that. I'll remember the next time I feel my life is in danger that it could be worse.

[Russ]

Yes, there was. Of all the professions you posted, how many of the deaths are attributed to murders or attempted murders on the job? Where having a firearm could have made a difference?

[Itshim]

Back to the saying lies ,damn lies, & statistics.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yes, there was. Of all the professions you posted, how many of the deaths are attributed to murders or attempted murders on the job? Where having a firearm could have made a difference?

Correct....."could" have a made a difference, as opposed to "would" have made a difference.

They certainly made a difference to the 8 people that have been shot since 2005 that didn't have a weapon on them.

By the way that's 40% of the peopl shot by police in the last 7 years did not have a weapon on them.

Considering that they were shot by specially trained armed response units.

It doesn't take a massive leap to extrapolate that if you give a gun to every beat cop that that percentage would increase or at the very least stay the same.

One thing for sure though is the number of people shot would go up.

40% isn't a good enough pass rate.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Correct....."could" have a made a difference, as opposed to "would" have made a difference.

They certainly made a difference to the 8 people that have been shot since 2005 that didn't have a weapon on them.

By the way that's 40% of the peopl shot by police in the last 7 years did not have a weapon on them.

Considering that they were shot by specially trained armed response units.

It doesn't take a massive leap to extrapolate that if you give a gun to every beat cop that that percentage would increase or at the very least stay the same.

One thing for sure though is the number of people shot would go up.

40% isn't a good enough pass rate.

You seem to have missed (or avoided) the point. None of the other professions in that list face the type of risks that police experience on a day to day basis. I'm not saying the risks are greater or less, but Police risk intentional attacks or death each day.

That's very different from those other vocations, the majority of which I'd suggest would be down to accidents.