Hillsborough Report

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

These incidents make the news precisely because they are so extraordinary. They are not "everyday" cases so I stand by my original point.

Perhaps it might be pertinent to pause for a moment and consider that if the police can keep the truth at bay for 23 yrs in such a high profile case involving the deaths of 96 people, then doing likewise in countless "everyday" cases which attract far less publicity, perhaps would be a walk in the park by comparison.

Originally Posted by Peter_

Apart from all the officers involved in the Hillsborough coverup, everyone of the officers involved should lose their job if still employed by any police force and lose their police pension, pay back any damages they received and be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice which would be quite apt to say the least.

Now that is enough to be getting on with as everyone of those officers involved are not fit to classed as responsible and fit human beings and I would not care if they lost the roofs over their heads as innocent people lost their lives on that day through their inability to act as the professionals they were supposed to be.

As mentioned before ascertaining if that happened has still to done,
yes written statements where changed but that is not a crime in itself ,if there was a conspiracy to change the statements in order to influence a verdict by the coroner/jury then i'm sure that is a crime ,don't get confused with 'moral crimes' and 'civil crimes'

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Perhaps it might be pertinent to pause for a moment and consider that if the police can keep the truth at bay for 23 yrs in such a high profile case involving the deaths of 96 people, then doing likewise in countless "everyday" cases which attract far less publicity, perhaps would be a walk in the park by comparison.

some would say that they didn't keep the truth at bay given that most people involved new there was something wrong

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

typo its Vieil ..

Sorry.

your rose clouded glasses are clouding your typing, me I just can't spell

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by martyh

some would say that they didn't keep the truth at bay given that most people involved new there was something wrong

Agree with you there, as I'm one of them. However, had plod been successful in keeping the truth under wraps, I'm sure that would've been the last we ever would've heard of it. Given the state of affairs however, sooner or later they would've had to have confessed the truth.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by martyh

... the need for justice must be tempered with some common sense...

Which is why we don't (and never should) let the victims decide the punishment

[Russ]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

Which is why we don't (and never should) let the victims decide the punishment

Absolutely. In this case most of us can't begin to understand what the families of the victims have been through however for justice to be seen to be done it is paramount that the courts decide the punishment.

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by martyh

Which is what i said earlier



Don't get me wrong ,i am all in favour of prosecuting those police and officials that may have committed a crime by altering evidence and reports but the current feeling for the need for justice must be tempered with some common sense ,it wasn't the police who caused the disaster ,that was a combination of factors ranging from poor crowd control to the design of the stadium and all must be considered ,We must refrain from simply saying "it was all the fault of the police" because it most certainly was not

Well yes and no. The deths were a TRAGIC accident and an Inspector made a bad call which was partly to blame for the deaths. This was a mistake on his part, for that there would have been a hearing he would have had his knuckles rapped and lost the chance of promotion or he would have gone on sick leave, I don't know how it would have ended. Its all very sad but the problem is with the police (filling the book) covering up the truth with lies and changing some officers statements.

For this the book should be thrown at them even if they have retired.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

As mentioned before ascertaining if that happened has still to done,
yes written statements where changed but that is not a crime in itself ,if there was a conspiracy to change the statements in order to influence a verdict by the coroner/jury then i'm sure that is a crime ,don't get confused with 'moral crimes' and 'civil crimes'

I and most of Liverpool do not care what happens these illegitimate policemen, as long as something does happen as they changed statements so that is attempting to pervert the course of justice and they should lose everything, jobs, pensions, houses.

I honestly do not care how it would affect their families because altering their statements and not helping potentially 41 people to possibly survive makes them all responsible, how do you think their victims families feel knowing what those people did.

Originally Posted by Peter_

I and most of Liverpool do not care what happens these illegitimate policemen, as long as something does happen as they changed statements so that is attempting to pervert the course of justice .

not necessarily.

You may also consider directing some of the hatred you have at ,the FA ,Liverpool fc and Sheffield utd all where more culpable in my opinion for allowing the game to take place there knowing that there where problems with the ground which led to the problems in the first place

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

not necessarily.

You may also consider directing some of the hatred you have at ,the FA ,Liverpool fc and Sheffield utd all where more culpable in my opinion for allowing the game to take place there knowing that there where problems with the ground which led to the problems in the first place

The police where there on the day and did not help and then covered it up with lies and mistruths which has now been shown to be fact, why should they not suffer all 164 police liars should be prosecuted for their failure to be a human being.

Click the link below to a Facebook page nothing offensive just wants likes.

Bet i can find 1 million people who want justice for the 96

Originally Posted by Peter_

The police where there on the day and did not help and then covered it up with lies and mistruths which has now been shown to be fact, why should they not suffer all 164 police liars should be prosecuted for their failure to be a human being.

Click the link below to a Facebook page nothing offensive just wants likes.

Bet i can find 1 million people who want justice for the 96

I think you need to get a bit of perspective

Some of the police may not have known their reports had been altered should they suffer ? don't you think the others i mentioned should be held culpable ?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

I think you need to get a bit of perspective

Some of the police may not have known their reports had been altered should they suffer ? don't you think the others i mentioned should be held culpable ?

First and foremost the police who watched people die and altered their statements.

Oddly a year earlier the exact same football match did not end in disaster because the police must have done their job correctly even though the FA ignored warnings from previous semi finals.

Originally Posted by Peter_

First and foremost the police who watched people die and altered their statements.

Oddly a year earlier the exact same football match did not end in disaster because the police must have done their job correctly even though the FA ignored warnings from previous semi finals.

I'm not saying that the police did no wrong ,all i'm saying is bear in mind that other parties did wrong by the fans as well ,so by all means shout at people just make sure you are shouting at the right people and remember that the police probably had no training for this type of incident as it hadn't happened on this scale before and most of the police who where there where probably in just as much shock as the fans where some may have even had friends or family at the match

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Which is what i said earlier



Don't get me wrong ,i am all in favour of prosecuting those police and officials that may have committed a crime by altering evidence and reports but the current feeling for the need for justice must be tempered with some common sense ,it wasn't the police who caused the disaster ,that was a combination of factors ranging from poor crowd control to the design of the stadium and all must be considered ,We must refrain from simply saying "it was all the fault of the police" because it most certainly was not

Everything that happened afterwards was the fault of the police assisted by a newspaper that saw cheap headlines that fitted its agenda and a government that saw the same, an apology simply isn't enough for the damage they have done, heads should roll.

---------- Post added at 04:22 ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

not necessarily.

You may also consider directing some of the hatred you have at ,the FA ,Liverpool fc and Sheffield utd all where more culpable in my opinion for allowing the game to take place there knowing that there where problems with the ground which led to the problems in the first place

Personally I blame the guy that crashed/roadworks causing the delay on the motorway and as much as I'd love to blame sheff utd for just about everything I think involving them here is going a bit far even for me.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

I'm not saying that the police did no wrong ,all i'm saying is bear in mind that other parties did wrong by the fans as well ,so by all means shout at people just make sure you are shouting at the right people and remember that the police probably had no training for this type of incident as it hadn't happened on this scale before and most of the police who where there where probably in just as much shock as the fans where some may have even had friends or family at the match

It was a match between Nottingham Forest and Liverpool so rather unlikely to involve anyone from Sheffield.

You do not need training just compassion and a grip on reality when you see people being crushed and dying in front of you plus you need humanity which these people left at the gate.