Eurozone will collapse...

The point about Labour's profligacy is that they kept spending during the good times ("end to boom and bust" ring a bell?), rather than saving for the recession, thus building up the enormous deficit we have now....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The point about Labour's profligacy is that they kept spending during the good times ("end to boom and bust" ring a bell?), rather than saving for the recession, thus building up the enormous deficit we have now....

Too true.

They even kept spending when the big red financial writing was on the wall and they were on the verge of being booted out of office. Shows how much they cared about the nation's longer term economic prospects. All they were interested in at that point was making life as hard as possible for their political opponents who'd have to pick up the pieces.

[mertle]

hugh not stricktly true certainly not according to these figures.

ps thanks all explaining my comments.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt

Debt only went up alarmingly after 2008 crisis.

Therefore the money was used to bail the banks and help elevaite the crisis looming.

Concervatives never complained oposition prior 2008 osborne actually said he would increased spending himself at the time.

The other is not spending is bad in itself but where it goes. If we aiming to build the bricks for the future, aiming to expand improve GPD then its not bad spending.

However seeing the figures suggest labour was not at fault.

The only thing blame concervatives was naive to listen that austerity was the right way to solve this crisis. Before people jump it dont mean going mad spending spree either.

The whole mess will go down in history for one big foulup of handling the economy. It was not rocket science what austerity would do without growth. those dumped on scrapheap either now unemployed statistic or part time workers. Either way less consuming from them. Then those businesses who lost publc sector contracts too on top people not spending. I really wonder at times these people who supposed to be bright cannot claim in hindsight we should done this and that. Banks take huge blame especially those in america for this mess.

It was clear economy was too weak that private sector was in no position to create the kind jobs to sustain the cull.

When all countries follow the same dumb ideolagy with threats from idiots like rating agencies, IMF european union. While allowing those same idiots to profagate by not paying taxes, hoarding, causing crisis. Worse have illusion that dropping taxes would create the mechinisms for job creation. That not forgetting the less taxes government now collecting it hit comes all together one big heap brown stuff that could been avoided.

We simply in mess for listening idiots who either had vested interest or jumped up loonies.

What was needed was cool heads not headless chicken panicky decisions. Ony seen one or two economist talk any sense sadly these not been the experts they listened too. As in our case it was used as vehicle to get policies in which sick but do naff all to help the situation. With powerful corruption behind the motives to make few very very rich by profiteering from contracts to do work for budies.

Only know we hearing shift to growth but again they not listening. We still looking creating the wrong growth here we talking about property boom the last thing we need right now is that which will bite us up the arse 10 years time.

We need not either credit boom either but solid growth in production so we become less reliant on the service sector.


One thing needs be asked to King/osborne where has the QE money gone. Did it goto the markets, businesses to create growth in production sector or did it find itself in property.

I dont trust either to sort and control QE.

Originally Posted by mertle

One thing needs be asked to King/osborne where has the QE money gone. Did it goto the markets, businesses to create growth in production sector or did it find itself in property.

I dont trust either to sort and control QE.

Rather a lot of it seems to have gone into the banks' capital buffers, which to be fair they are now compelled to swell way beyond the levels previously considered satisfactory.

However there are dark suspicions that some has found its way into bankers' bonuses.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Did anyone understand the OP?

.

I never do

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Chris

Rather a lot of it seems to have gone into the banks' capital buffers, which to be fair they are now compelled to swell way beyond the levels previously considered satisfactory.

However there are dark suspicions that some has found its way into bankers' bonuses.

would not suprise me on that about bonuses.

there was the same talk that banks bailout seemed to not go into actually what it was for but to fat cats in banking pay/bonuses.

Although agree buffer needed to protect banks from bad debt. We also need to maintain economy. Without right growth we are in trouble. I certainly dont trust who using QE programme. Fear being used to line own pockets.

Just wonder if it would be better for governments arrange loaning directly rather Banks with low interests.

That way government earns money from QE rather than Banks. We also control where its delivered too so its put into projects which help growth but right growth which improves the country/economy. That inturn means we need to make sure governments dont spend on vanity projects which bad for economy/growth.

Another is this could governments actually bail out companies in trouble by sharing company ownership.

Whch means it gives them assets to either sell on or earn profits could this be the future if taxation system is problematic to collect.

Yes, that's right - hundreds of billions of pounds went into pay and bonuses.

Really - your accusations should at least have some basis in reality.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18391824

Funny, the Europhile BBC made a big headline this morning about the initially positive market reaction to Spain's honest-guv-it's-not-a-bailout. By the time they all closed - most of them comfortably south of their opening levels as traders started to see through the bluster, BS and nonsense emanating from Brussels and Madrid - the story is fairly well buried. Italian and Spanish bond yields are up (Spain's are at an eye-watering 6.5%, and let's not forget, the not-a-bailout money is going on the Government's books, even though it has been spun as direct support for some of the country's banks, rather than its economy - Spain is going to have to repay the bailout loan at some point, but how is it going to do that when its ability to refinance its debt is so badly compromised?)

[mrmistoffelees]

Not sure if posted before, apologies if so

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, that's right - hundreds of billions of pounds went into pay and bonuses.

Really - your accusations should at least have some basis in reality.....

not all would never think that all it got syphoned but we only got banks trust they need X amount to cover securities.

Some bosses milked it with bonuses while they can.. Some where very risk investments which why should governments lose money on not banks who played russian roulette.

This not sure just US bailed out banks or the whole lot. 1.6bn in alsorts perks while being bailed is disgraceful.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_152647.html


The fact we gave banks the money did not put any conditions on the bailout.

We was not only one then that cow at IMF, bounty hunters called rating agencies have nerve tell countries to austerity. We covered there arses with banks bailouts.

I am shocked they aint been investigated bigtime what there involvement to find out the bottom of the credit crash. Considering the top men in wall street knew did naff all on that ponsie scheme.

I have found breakdown it shows how much we bailed them out too.

http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data...976/versions/1

---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Not sure if posted before, apologies if so

lol they should put IMF too.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, that's right - hundreds of billions of pounds went into pay and bonuses.

Really - your accusations should at least have some basis in reality.....

If it was a single penny piece it was to much in bonuses, their banks lost millions and nearly bankrupted the world and they still want bonuses, the gall of these people knows no bounds, it's about time imo they were reminded that bonuses are given for good performance and not just to be expected come what may as part of your remuneration package.

Totally agree - I was just responding to the initial hyperbolic statement.

So to basically sum up we are totally screwed whatever anyone does..and no one really knows what to do about it.

Wonders why economics is designated as a science?Seems more like magical illusions to me.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Seems more like magical illusions to me.

That's basically the conclusion I came to after struggling with the concept of fiat money for a while.

You go to the bank for a loan and they magically conjure that money into your account.

It seems to me that the whole of EU land has been doing this for ages now. Making magic money without creating anything of value to back it up. It eventually HAS to all come tumbling down.

[mertle]

Well the hypocrite open her big mouth again warning triple world disaster now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...istine-lagarde

Legarde should put number 1 those who wont pay tax like herself.

Funny how she was all for austerity then now moans about lack growth. Crikey where did this insight come from.

Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, has warned that the world risks a triple crisis of declining incomes, environmental damage and social unrest unless countries adopt a more sustainable approach to economic growth.


Ahead of the Rio+20 Earth summit later this month, she said the rich should restrain their demands for higher incomes while there are still 200 million people worldwide looking for a job and poverty is on the rise.

Was it like eon light switching on she changes her tune. You know what will happen. Soon as the countries start the building blocks to growth we her start whinging again.

She absolute useless in her role surely should be removed.

If it was not for the banks we would not be in mess. Wish she shuts her mouth pays her tax like good girl. She got fat zero chance the fat cats will comply which she part of the croney crowd on £298,675 per year salary.

Challenge you legarde if so worried about 200 million out of work donate £150.000 of your salary a year. Might not be enough but would help little towards it. If other rich cronies did the same we may just get jobs. Bet 100% she would not give away £150,000. She paid way too much for the job she done.

She dont critise those dont pay there taxes wonder why.

Infact they still got there snouts in the troughs with latest figures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...s-survey-shows

Maybe about time make it criminal offense to give bigger payrise than workers. Crickey even if they get 1% same as everyone else its still bigger payrise. Why cant laws be put in place for pararity

The soaraway pace of boardroom pay is highlighted in a survey on Tuesday, which shows the bosses of FTSE 100 companies enjoyed an average 12% rise in their take home pay last year, while their employees barely received any pay increases.