Football : Season 2011/12

[weststandguy]

I thought Wengers inability to give Wigan any credit for the win in the post match interview was shamefull.Even Alex Ferguson gave us that on Wednesday.
Well done Latics,four more points and we're there.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by gazzae

Not sure I'd go that far Denphone. A blow yes but hardly a devastating blow.

Yes perhaps that is slightly over the top but if they lose against Chelsea then that original comment perhaps might not seem OTT after all.

Originally Posted by thenry

yes it was the players but hes the manager he call the shots. he can see Ramseys burnt out. the sub like for like made sense so early on but i knew he wouldnt last and would of needed to be taken off second half.

Ramsey came on because of the injury.

Ox should have come on for Ramsey but he takes off Yossi. Djourou is then taken off which again didnt sort the issue. Ox can play in midfield. hes played the role before and done extremely well.

He plays well but he is too young and inexperienced to control a game. I think the level of hype and expectation that was built around him is what is making Wenger hold him back, he is trying to protect him from the pressure and the hit on confidence when the fans get on his back when it turns out he isn't the messiah. The Ramsay situation is evidence of this.

Originally Posted by thenry

we totally screwed up today collectively but the manager not making the right calls was pathetic.

It isn't 'pathetic' . He made changes, they didn't work out. It's easier to suddenly declare who shouldn't have played after the game than before. He doesn't have the luxury of hindsight when picking his team before the game. This isn't too dissimilar from the team that beat City.

Football is a contest. Sometimes you lose. It can't always be avoided. The performance was lacklustre, too many players lacking spark, and poor defending.

This, along with QPR, may well cost us in the end. Let's hope we beat Chelsea.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

Ramsey came on because of the injury.

yes I know and if you read my post you'll see I had no argument with the like for like so early on. what I don't understand is why he's left on until the end. the guys burnt out, he'll be his old self again next season. he doesn't provide nothing worthwhile defensively, he slows down play. this isn't me taking a shot at Ramsey, I feel sorry for him. However I do blame Wenger, he calls the shots.

Originally Posted by Damien

He plays well but he is too young and inexperienced to control a game. I think the level of hype and expectation that was built around him is what is making Wenger hold him back, he is trying to protect him from the pressure and the hit on confidence when the fans get on his back when it turns out he isn't the messiah. The Ramsay situation is evidence of this.

Ox is a bright spark, we were all over Wigan. We needed the spark to open it up instead of banging head against wall.

The Ramsey situation isn't anything like that. Ramseys been overplayed which is why hes not as sharp now, hes burnt out.

Originally Posted by Damien

It isn't 'pathetic' . He made changes, they didn't work out. It's easier to suddenly declare who shouldn't have played after the game than before. He doesn't have the luxury of hindsight when picking his team before the game. This isn't too dissimilar from the team that beat City.

erm the naked eye last night saw that Ramsey slows down play. its not his fault he's been overplayed but to hang him out to dry is the managers fault. like I say we had Ox who could have come on for him in the second half but he left him on.

Originally Posted by Damien

Football is a contest. Sometimes you lose. It can't always be avoided. The performance was lacklustre, too many players lacking spark, and poor defending.

agreed but there was a possible game changer option which Wenger didn't make.

Originally Posted by Damien

This, along with QPR, may well cost us in the end. Let's hope we beat Chelsea.

Ramsey was hung out to dry in the free role getting the way against QPR as well. Yes lets hope even though Arteta is out and unless we see Yossi playing in midfield, thats if he can and hasn't got the can't play against parenting club clause.. we'll probably see Ramsey play on Saturday unless of course Wenger or someone points out to Wenger Ramseys burnt out and Ox will have to be thrown in.

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Theo was or is poor? He has massive potential and in some games he is simply untouchable but then he shows why he never went to the World cup with many of his performances.

He reminds me of Ben Arfa at the start, Massive potential and had a few games where he looked brilliant then more than just a few that were shockers. Luckily Ben Arfa has really shown his true colours lately but who knows, may be nothing but a fluke.

Theos needs our midfield to pull strings, divert attention for him to exploit. its a shame he can't do it alone, he's got the tools but their not sharp enough.

I remember Ben Arfa well while at L'OM. hes abit like Theos situation but the two big differences are ones a little trouble maker at times (Ben Arfa) and the other is too reserved, Theo tries to be the big man but thats not the problem. its balancing his ability thats the issue. furthermore Ben Arfas more content with the ball whereas Theo thinks the speed he posses alone will be enough when it isn't.

Originally Posted by weststandguy

I thought Wengers inability to give Wigan any credit for the win in the post match interview was shamefull.Even Alex Ferguson gave us that on Wednesday.
Well done Latics,four more points and we're there.

he's annoyed Wigan tried to time waste although that wasn't his problem. he's been his own enemy for a while now. to be honest with you mate the time wasting took some of the sting out but wasn't the serious problem from Arsenals view. from me, if it means anything, well done on taking the initiative.

[Shadow Demon UK]

If Wigan realised the season doesn't start in March they would be a decent mid-table side.

[colin25]

If theo concentrated on going up wings and crossing, and he did that well...he would be a great player.

I think he tries to do all...but isn't consistent enough for that...yet

Originally Posted by thenry

However I do blame Wenger, he calls the shots.

You blame Wenger for almost everything and credit him with nothing. During the bad patch I had not seen someone more disrespectful of a guy who has done so much for the club and little credit has been given since the start of a great run. Even with the Wigan defeat we're in a decent position.

Ox is a bright spark, we were all over Wigan. We needed the spark to open it up instead of banging head against wall.

But he didn't do that. The situation was the same when he was on as it was before that. He lost possession as much as the rest of the team whilst trying to get past Wigan's impressive defence.

The Ramsey situation isn't anything like that. Ramseys been overplayed which is why hes not as sharp now, hes burnt out.

Ramsey's situation wasn't helped by the burden of expectation he carried for a young guy. Chamberlain is even younger. He cannot dominate or control games yet and the trend for Arsenal fans to see him as the saviour of games is worrying. Especially with the lack of patience many of them show.

of course Wenger or someone points out to Wenger Ramseys burnt out

Wenger doesn't need to be told about the status of his players. He works with them everyday in training and deals with them on a day to day basis. He has full access to the medical and training reports. He has a lifetime in football and 15 years experience as manager of Arsenal to aid him in that.

he's annoyed Wigan tried to time waste although that wasn't his problem. he's been his own enemy for a while now. to be honest with you mate the time wasting took some of the sting out but wasn't the serious problem from Arsenals view. from me, if it means anything, well done on taking the initiative.

Time wasting wasn't the problem with Arsenal last night but Wenger is right to be annoyed. Wigan are trying to stay up and were at Arsenal, you can understand it from their point of view and should expect it.

However it is not something to be congratulated for. Football is meant to be a 90 minute game, people paid a lot of money to watch a game. Not to watch people waste time. It's getting pathetic now. The Newcastle game and Krul has got to be one of the most egrious examples I have experienced.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

You blame Wenger for almost everything and credit him with nothing. During the bad patch I had not seen someone more disrespectful of a guy who has done so much for the club and little credit has been given since the start of a great run. Even with the Wigan defeat we're in a decent position.

thats because he's been arrogant in the past and I'm not as a fan going to get complacent. I've voiced my worries for years now on arsenal forums, the Bendtner issue etc. etc. yet nothing and we have seen mess after mess. we have a crucial summer coming so excuse me if I don't go blowing smoke in praise, I want the club to move forward not backwards. blowing smoke has got us going backwards and sideways rather than forward.

Originally Posted by Damien

But he didn't do that. The situation was the same when he was on as it was before that. He lost possession as much as the rest of the team whilst trying to get past Wigan's impressive defence.

your picking out comments to your like. Ox on for Ramsey, simple. Yossi still on the pitch.

Originally Posted by Damien

Ramsey's situation wasn't helped by the burden of expectation he carried for a young guy. Chamberlain is even younger. He cannot dominate or control games yet and the trend for Arsenal fans to see him as the saviour of games is worrying. Especially with the lack of patience many of them show.

its not about controlling the game, its about having that raw talented spark to open it up, push forward which Ox is. who else have we got?

Originally Posted by Damien

Wenger doesn't need to be told about the status of his players. He works with them everyday in training and deals with them on a day to day basis. He has full access to the medical and training reports. He has a lifetime in football and 15 years experience as manager of Arsenal to aid him in that.

so why play burnt out Ramsey when he could have taken him off?

Originally Posted by Damien

Time wasting wasn't the problem with Arsenal last night but Wenger is right to be annoyed. Wigan are trying to stay up and were at Arsenal, you can understand it from their point of view and should expect it.

However it is not something to be congratulated for. Football is meant to be a 90 minute game, people paid a lot of money to watch a game. Not to watch people waste time. It's getting pathetic now. The Newcastle game and Krul has got to be one of the most egrious examples I have experienced.

Of course he's got a right to be annoyed but it doesn't give him the right to fall into his narrow minded ways.

I'm not congratulating Wigan for time wasting. I am however congratulating them on taking the initiative to score and somewhat defend well against an Arsenal team that wasnt able to find full on inroads.

Originally Posted by thenry

thats because he's been arrogant in the past and I'm not as a fan going to get complacent. I've voiced my worries for years now on arsenal forums, the Bendtner issue etc. etc. yet nothing and we have seen mess after mess. we have a crucial summer coming so excuse me if I don't go blowing smoke in praise, I want the club to move forward not backwards. blowing smoke has got us going backwards and sideways rather than forward.

Exactly, but then you have an agenda. We lose a game and you call Wenger's decisions pathetic, we win 8 in a row and your silent until we lose again and you retrospectively tell us everything he got wrong.

You were slamming Wenger for keeping faith in Rosicky. Maybe he knew better then? Maybe he knows better about Ramsey and Chamberlain. If he listened to the fans all the time then RVP would have been sold for being inconsistent and injury prone, Szczesny wouldn't be in the first team, Koscielny would be sitting in the reserves alongside Squillaci, Song would have been kicked out years ago and the player on which you based your name would have been at Arsenal for one unsuccessful season during a mediocre career as a winger.

All the players I mentioned (apart from Szczesny) were not instant successes and/or went though bad spells in which the fans came out with the same criticisms. We forget how he kept faith with Henry when he kept failing to score, he wasn't a forward, what was Wenger playing him there for? Song was really criticised. Koscielny 'was too weak' and couldn't cut it in the Premier League etc etc.

Wenger gets some wrong, more right. But if you don't give him credit when he does well then the criticism when he does bad grate. Given the resources at his disposal, the injury crisis, and the general calamity of the season being in third place at the moment isn't bad .

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

Exactly, but then you have an agenda. We lose a game and you call Wenger's decisions pathetic, we win 8 in a row and your silent until we lose again and you retrospectively tell us everything he got wrong.

sorry but the implosion has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Damien

You were slamming Wenger for keeping faith in Rosicky. Maybe he knew better then? Maybe he knows better about Ramsey and Chamberlain. If he listened to the fans all the time then RVP would have been sold for being inconsistent and injury prone, Szczesny wouldn't be in the first team, Koscielny would be sitting in the reserves alongside Squillaci, Song would have been kicked out years ago and the player on which you based your name would have been at Arsenal for one unsuccessful season during a mediocre career as a winger.

yes admittedly Rosicky shut me up. I had no idea he still had fight left in him. I honestly thought his legs were gone which isn't the case at all seeing his little bursts of 'beep beep' runs. well done Wenger

yes thats the Wenger I want back, full on Wenger being the Boss not some halfwit which he has been. We all need someone to put faith in us in life, its what makes us stronger but when someones taking the pee Wenger should put his foot down rather than letting it go which he's obviously done with alot of players just taking it easy. he now has got it together with no even wanting to put Chamakh and co on, i hope thats the sign of him having enough of the crap. the quoted possible transfers upcoming supports that he's had it.

this Ramsey case, hes been overplayed, hes burnt out.. unless he works wonders in the last 4 thats fact.

Originally Posted by Damien

All the players I mentioned (apart from Szczesny) were not instant successes and/or went though bad spells in which the fans came out with the same criticisms. We forget how he kept faith with Henry when he kept failing to score, he wasn't a forward, what was Wenger playing him there for? Song was really criticised. Koscielny 'was too weak' and couldn't cut it in the Premier League etc etc.

I never actually went against Song or Kosh or Henry. fans wanted Song to be loaned out when he was peaking form, I was against the idea. I've always supported Kosh even after the Carling Cup defeat I didn't slate him and instead slated those who slated him. I did want a keeper though although we all knew he had great potential I for one didn't think he'd slot in so well. we're all human but from this genius of a man I expect more.

Originally Posted by Damien

Wenger gets some wrong, more right. But if you don't give him credit when he does well then the criticism when he does bad grate. Given the resources at his disposal, the injury crisis, and the general calamity of the season being in third place at the moment isn't bad .

me as a fan has got some wrong so ok you've got a point but the obvious has been missed by Wenger, thats what annoys me and provokes these sort of comments.

[Cobbydaler]

Bloody Reading! Second game when they've been outplayed & still won...

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Bloody Reading! Second game when they've been outplayed & still won...

You must have the patience of a Saint

---------- Post added at 23:17 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------

Originally Posted by weststandguy

Well done Latics,four more points and we're there.

Good luck, I sincerely hope you do it

[danielf]

Deserved win for Bayern (2-1). Madrid as cynical as you expect from a Mourinho side... 7 yellow cards, with a shade of red on one of them. The return should be interesting.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by yesman

You must have the patience of a Saint

I do, but I always fall back on these games...

Linky 1

Linky 2

Linky 3

Originally Posted by danielf

Deserved win for Bayern (2-1). Madrid as cynical as you expect from a Mourinho side... 7 yellow cards, with a shade of red on one of them. The return should be interesting.

I think it will be an all Spanish final, but I hope I am wrong