Rowan Williams to warn of downgrading of religious education

Personally i think that Rowan Williams' sermon is a rambling piece of junk ,i've read through it a couple of times and apart from giving a brief synopsis of an old Doctor Who episode there wasn't much to peak my interest.

full sermon here but be prepared for a brain explosion
http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.or...-easter-sermon

[Stuart]

I agree with what seems to be the consensus here. RE, if taught well and not just as a way to force a particular religion on pupils is good.

I had two RE teachers at school. One was catholic and taught us very little about other religions. He also actively discouraged any attempt to question the Bible. The other did not reveal his religion (he didn't consider it important for the class to know), but he did teach us about each of the major religions in turn, their history and beliefs. He also actively encouraged us to question what we are taught. A lesson which I think is important for all of us (whatever we believe) to learn.

The reason why I think it's good is because people (naturally) tend to fear the unknown. Some people will fight what they fear.

Whether we believe or not, Religion does form the basis of the lives of a lot of people. As such, it is an important part of their lives, and in many cases, an important part of their society.

When you get people not really understanding parts of a society, you tend to get wars. In these cases, Religion is the excuse, but ignorance is often the reason. RE can be used to combat that ignorance.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Unfortunatley that paper is as accurate with the truth as the book at the centre of this thread.

no i can't agree with that -at least the mail doesn't write its story's hundreds of years after the deaths of the alleged participants .

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

no i can't agree with that -at least the mail doesn't write its story's hundreds of years after the deaths of the alleged participants .

Point taken

Originally Posted by Mactire

Just a quick search Hugh.. Im sure theres loads more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ne...p-1/index.html

Don't be confused with "banned" and the "school chose not to...." they are totally different things .The comment you linked to is far from factual and is written by someone who has decided that because the school decided to break with tradition and not have a nativity play then it must have been banned

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Russ

You should know better than to use The Mail as a point of reference for these types of things. There is no evidence (other than "my mates once told me" types of stories) that nativities have been banned.

Indeed. A google search for Nativity Ban turns up (on page 1 at least) one example (posted by the Mail) of a school headmaster banning Nativities in the UK. Another Mail article about how parents are being banned from taking photos of children at another school. One article from a Christian site about how the NYC appeals court upheld a ban on Nativities (but, oddly, no article on the Ban), a load of blogs talking about that ban, and a liberal blog questioning some of The Mail's FOI requests (which are off topic but intriguing none the less).

Originally Posted by Mactire

Just a quick search Hugh.. Im sure theres loads more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ne...p-1/index.html

So the evidence is a reader's comment in the Daily Mail?

If you google search on 'School nativity plays banned', you really don't get much, besides one about a school in Rochford in 2010, where there was one being held, but the headmaster only wanted the junior school kids to take part, not the middle school kids, as he wanted them to focus on their school work.

You would have thought that if, as you stated, most schools had banned nativity plays, there would be more stories in the press.

[Mactire]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So the evidence is a reader's comment in the Daily Mail?

If you google search on 'School nativity plays banned', you really don't get much, besides one about a school in Rochford in 2010, where there was one being held, but the headmaster only wanted the junior school kids to take part, not the middle school kids, as he wanted them to focus on their school work.

You would have thought that if, as you stated, most schools had banned nativity plays, there would be more stories in the press.

I have to stand corrected on my comment 'most schools' .. Ive just asked my 9 and 11 year old if they had them..and they said "yes".. so I was also going on a story I viewed on the BBC news channel a couple years or so back..Perhaps blowing it all out of proportion.. like the Prophets of doom they are. I do still believe though, rather than having a Nativity Play... our children would benefit far more from a Science Play

Originally Posted by Mactire

I have to stand corrected on my comment 'most schools' .. Ive just asked my 9 and 11 year old if they had them..and they said "yes".. so I was also going on a story I viewed on the BBC news channel a couple years or so back..Perhaps blowing it all out of proportion.. like the Prophets of doom they are. I do still believe though, rather than having a Nativity Play... our children would benefit far more from a Science Play

This is the problem ,media reporting on the subject of anything religious is always tied in with agendas .The mail (and other papers)have for some years now had a "anti foreigner" agenda ,and any decision by schools or local authorities to break with tradition results in headlines such as "nativity plays banned" or "banned from flying the union jack" and it's all because of the "foreigners" when in reality there is usually a perfectly reasonable explanation

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mactire

I have to stand corrected on my comment 'most schools' .. Ive just asked my 9 and 11 year old if they had them..and they said "yes".. so I was also going on a story I viewed on the BBC news channel a couple years or so back..Perhaps blowing it all out of proportion.. like the Prophets of doom they are. I do still believe though, rather than having a Nativity Play... our children would benefit far more from a Science Play

A 'Science Play' would not teach children anything about the history of the feast of Christmas. Some parents may be happy to keep it commercialised but I think other would prefer their kids to learn about world history and tradition.

[Mactire]

Originally Posted by Russ

A 'Science Play' would not teach children anything about the history of the feast of Christmas. Some parents may be happy to keep it commercialised but I think other would prefer their kids to learn about world history and tradition.

Perhaps their History lessons could ?

[Fawkes]

Yes, but they don't need to do the nativity every year. I remember when we did The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe one year. It was nice to have a change.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mactire

Perhaps their History lessons could ?

The role of religion and faith in history plus its effect and role in the world today would be too widespread for it to be applied to anything bar a subject of its own.

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, but they don't need to do the nativity every year.

As it tells the traditional story of Christmas I think it makes perfect sense to do it every year.

Even allowing someone's child to take part does not mean they are validating any religion's doctrine.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Russ

A 'Science Play' would not teach children anything about the history of the feast of Christmas. Some parents may be happy to keep it commercialised but I think other would prefer their kids to learn about world history and tradition.

its nice your happy that the pagan origins of this feast should be explored .

[Russ]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

its nice your happy that the pagan origins of this feast should be explored .

If the pagan festival had also been named 'Christmas' then you'd have a point.