North Wales cable franchise

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by alestescarrow

So assuming Cabletel bought Metro TV's South Wales & Hertfordshire assets, the remaining Rediffusion infrastucture in South Wales is now actually owned by Virgin Media. Of course it's all pretty useless over 50 years from when it was installed, but as you say the ducts and the heavy infrastructure channels could have been so easily re-used.

And even now VM is considering a return to over-head cable following the opening up of BT poles and ducts... what goes around comes around I guess. Perhaps there will be more pressure on VM as BT Infinity's coverage increases; it will be in Wrexham by the end of the year.

But... if (extremely hypothetically!) VM were to want to expand its network into North Wales, would Metro be legally obliged to object as (if it still does) it is the legal licence holder?

I believe the legal position on old Rediffusion networks are probably still unsolved. When Maxwell Cable TV went into administration after Robert Maxwell jumped, the assets were subject to a management buyout that resulted in Metro Cable TV Ltd. The line I kept hearing was that the management buyout included only the operating assets and not the liabilities of Maxwell Cable TV. (Old closed down Rediffusion networks)

I don't believe it was ever quite so straight forward though, Metro continued to remove cables and poles from old closed down network areas as and when residents complained or local authorities requested. It lead me to believe that either the official line that Metro was not liable was just a way of not officially accepting their liabilities, or the true amount of assets/liabilities were not known by the administrators. I did also observe that on the occasions when these liabilities turned into assets, they were all too keen to claim them.

So the question now is does Virgin now considers itself responsible for the old networks (Liabilities) that Metro Cable TV claimed they didn't buy as part of the management buyout and were not responsible for. My guess is they will be claiming they own them if they are assets.

As far as I understand Metro have no way of stopping an operator such as Virgin building in the North Wales area. I am out of touch with things these days but there are no franchise areas and I believe the LDO Local Delivery Operators licence has also disappeared.

I know that when ntl (Virgin) were playing around with overhead networks in Ireland they were struggling to find employees with the necessary skills and experience. I remember that there was talk of some of the old ex-Rediffusion Cable TV employees from South Wales going across to train them.

[Alan Fry]

Could VM buy the North Wales North Wales cable franchise

Are there any other dormant cable franchises?

[m419]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Could VM buy the North Wales North Wales cable franchise

Are there any other dormant cable franchises?

No, it would have to be done from scratch same for any other dormant networks.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by m419

No, it would have to be done from scratch same for any other dormant networks.

Well i think VM should do it, they only serve Newport, Cardiff and Swansea in Wales!

[MrIca]

In Saltney, North Wales there's definitely some cable TV infrastructure. Here's a cabinet:

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=chest...49.13,,0,20.06

Along the main road from Chester there are CATV manholes. In fact they begin at the big roundabout near Handbridge in Chester itself.

Despite being on the other side of the Welsh border, Saltney is basically a suburb of Chester and will have been cabled up on that basis I would have thought.

[MrIca]

Well it is in North Wales and that's what we're talking about.
I understand your point but nowhere in Chester has cable TV. The council didn't allow it.

I should be clear as well, VM don't offer a service in Saltney so whatever the cabinets are, they aren't active.

Interesting ... does Deeside have it? I used to work there but never lived there.

[MrIca]

Not sure about Deeside, I'm inclined to say it doesn't. I only became aware of the situation in Saltney because I was working there and in Handbridge on FTTP.

[m419]

Originally Posted by MrIca

In Saltney, North Wales there's definitely some cable TV infrastructure. Here's a cabinet:

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=chest...49.13,,0,20.06

Along the main road from Chester there are CATV manholes. In fact they begin at the big roundabout near Handbridge in Chester itself.

That looks like a BT cabinet, the GPO ones

[MrIca]

Originally Posted by m419

That looks like a BT cabinet, the GPO ones

I promise you it isn't. And I know that for a fact. Read my last post and you'll realise why
The manhole in front of it has CATV on it.

[alestescarrow]

The amount of times I have been through Saltney and have never noticed this...
They don't look of Rediffusion age, however. But that area of Saltney is a council estate, presumably built by the predecessor of Alyn & Deeside District Council (presumably Buckley District??)... I guess its plausible there could have been a (planned?) cable service for council tenants, as seen elsewhere in the UK?

Otherwise could it have been a false start for Metro? However I don't think those cabinets look young enough to be late 90s/early 00's (when Metro was planning building its network).

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by MrIca

I promise you it isn't. And I know that for a fact. Read my last post and you'll realise why
The manhole in front of it has CATV on it.

In my town (Pontypool) there are manhole covers with CATV on them but we have no CATV network, I believe these are manholes containing the CCTV system.

This may or may not be common practice, but I am guessing that the civil contractor installing the manholes and duct just happened to have some CATV ones spare in his yard.

I did hear similar stories in the mid 90's of CATV manholes and ducts being installed in the southern part of Pontypool. I don't know if this was a similar instance or was actually work carried out by CableTel/ntl as part of their grand plans. In those days they had an almost unlimited amount of financial backing and a very ambitious plan. I am aware that they purchased buildingsin towns that they never even went near with a shovel, these were later sold on when money dried up.

I heard a story about one such building in Bridgend, they bought the building and never set foot in it. A number of years later they decided that it was not in a suitable location and decided to sell it, apparently there were issues locating the keys because they had not set foot inside since buying it.

I would not be surprised if there is unused CATV infrastructure from the 1990s that has never been used in odd locations.

[Digital Fanatic]

It's the digging up of roads that causes the most outlay I would assume, so if there are ducts already there then there is hope?

[Alan Fry]

Are ther any more "dormant" cable franchises?