80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'

[Russ]

I can't see that having much of an effect. For some people, driving fast and dangerously makes them feel alive, it's almost a mini-rush. All the education in the world won't make much of a difference if they're susceptible to that sort of experience.

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by Russ

I can't see that having much of an effect. For some people, driving fast and dangerously makes them feel alive, it's almost a mini-rush. All the education in the world won't make much of a difference if they're susceptible to that sort of experience.

adding tracking devices that record speed, acceleration, braking, et cetera would certainly help curb that if the info was scheduled to upload to insurance companies regularly with annual quotes being affected by the results. I know a few places have started doing this for new drivers, but if it were mandatory...? yes, it's all very big brother, but unlike 'safety cameras', this would actually make a difference to who is on our roads, imo. if it actually saves lives, right.....?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

adding tracking devices that record speed, acceleration, braking, et cetera would certainly help curb that if the info was scheduled to upload to insurance companies regularly with annual quotes being affected by the results. I know a few places have started doing this for new drivers, but if it were mandatory...? yes, it's all very big brother, but unlike 'safety cameras', this would actually make a difference to who is on our roads, imo. if it actually saves lives, right.....?

That idea is commendable, but it would be like speed cameras. They don't stop people from speeding - they just take photos.

I'm sure tracking devices will be beneficial to road safety but they'll never make a serious dent in the accident figures IMO. They won't do anything to affect the statistics of accidents caused by joyriders.

[Threepints]

I think we need to address the standard of driving in the UK as well. I drove over 2500 miles in the US earlier this year, in both good & very bad weather. I never once had any road rage from fools on the road. I'd only been back in the UK & on the road for about 15 minutes when I had some idiot driving erratically and cutting me up.

As for the speed limit. I don't actually believe the Government argument that it will help the economy due to less time for deliveries etc. Many police forces already run an unofficial policy of speed limits above the legal 70MPH we now have. I could name one that operates at up to 86MPH.

As others have stated deaths, crashes etc are not solely down to speed. It is more about education drivers to drive at the appropriate speed for the road, conditions, number of vehicles etc etc.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Russ

I can't see that having much of an effect. For some people, driving fast and dangerously makes them feel alive, it's almost a mini-rush. All the education in the world won't make much of a difference if they're susceptible to that sort of experience.

Shock tactics are used. And believe me, many of them are shocked. So it's worth a try.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Shock tactics are used. And believe me, many of them are shocked. So it's worth a try.

Even though it's unlikely to make much of a difference? Yeah why not, the government has to be seen to be doing something I guess.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by mertle

Personally I feel there needs to be better studies ....

I agree with you, mertle. Such studies are straightforward and can provide robist evidence for decision-makers. For example, select sections of motorway in various parts of the country, "pair" them, them randomly allocate half of the pair to have an increased speed limit for, say, two years. Gather data on speed of journeys, vehicle throughput per hour, accidents per month, deaths per annum, etc. Put the data into the public domain so everything is transparent, then act on the results.

Most of the medicines we take have been tested to these standards, why not road safety?

[Osem]

Like it or not, we have drivers of varying age, experience and ability on our roads and the relevant rules/regulations need to reflect that fact. I've lost count how many times I've heard someone defending their own speeding and aggressive driving by claiming they and their cars are up to it so it's all perfectly safe. But what about those who aren't up to it, whose vehicles aren't so capable? What about those who're nervous, have slower reactions and/or respond unpredictably? We don't drive in isolation and what we do on the roads should reflect not only our abilities but make allowance for those around us who may not see things or react in quite the same way. It seems to me that many of the most serious incidents on our roads appear to happen due to freak events in the blink of an eye but in reality are caused by drivers overestimating their own skills, ignoring the highway code and not taking sufficient accout of what's going on around them whether that be the prevailing weather or other road users.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Osem

Like it or not, we have drivers of varying age, experience and ability on our roads and the relevant rules/regulations need to reflect that fact. I've lost count how many times I've heard someone defending their own speeding and aggressive driving by claiming they and their cars are up to it so it's all perfectly safe. But what about those who aren't up to it, whose vehicles aren't so capable? What about those who're nervous, have slower reactions and/or respond unpredictably? We don't drive in isolation and what we do on the roads should reflect not only our abilities but make allowance for those around us who may not see things or react in quite the same way. It seems to me that many of the most serious incidents on our roads appear to happen due to freak events in the blink of an eye but in reality are caused by drivers overestimating their own skills, ignoring the highway code and not taking sufficient accout of what's going on around them whether that be the prevailing weather or other road users.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Russ

Even though it's unlikely to make much of a difference? Yeah why not, the government has to be seen to be doing something I guess.

Don't think for a second that it is the governments initative. They have nothing to do with it.

The only things that will work are education or enforcement. If you educate people with something that really sticks in their mind, then it does tend to work. And if you scare someone, then they tend to never forget it.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Don't think for a second that it is the governments initative. They have nothing to do with it.

Lol, ok.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

The only things that will work are education or enforcement. If you educate people with something that really sticks in their mind, then it does tend to work.

You managed to get one of those correct. Some people cannot and/or will be educated. For example, some people with ADHD find it hard to learn new things like that. It is not an offence to bring with a condition like that but their concentration can drift to the point where such 'education' will have little effect.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

And if you scare someone, then they tend to never forget it.

Or they just try harder to perform whatever their dangerous manoeuvre is, more 'carefully'. You cannot easily educate against a powerful ego.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Osem

Like it or not, we have drivers of varying age, experience and ability on our roads and the relevant rules/regulations need to reflect that fact. I've lost count how many times I've heard someone defending their own speeding and aggressive driving by claiming they and their cars are up to it so it's all perfectly safe. But what about those who aren't up to it, whose vehicles aren't so capable? What about those who're nervous, have slower reactions and/or respond unpredictably? We don't drive in isolation and what we do on the roads should reflect not only our abilities but make allowance for those around us who may not see things or react in quite the same way. It seems to me that many of the most serious incidents on our roads appear to happen due to freak events in the blink of an eye but in reality are caused by drivers overestimating their own skills, ignoring the highway code and not taking sufficient accout of what's going on around them whether that be the prevailing weather or other road users.

Not so much freak events. As I described earlier, many drivers take risks because they have got a way with it so many times previously. Most times they are just lucky to get away with it. Occasionally their luck just runs out.

---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

Lol, ok.



You managed to get one of those correct. Some people cannot and/or will be educated. For example, some people with ADHD find it hard to learn new things like that. It is not an offence to bring with a condition like that but their concentration can drift to the point where such 'education' will have little effect.




Or they just try harder to perform whatever their dangerous manoeuvre is, more 'carefully'. You cannot easily educate against a powerful ego.

We are talking about the majority of people that go through the boy racer stage.

It is a bit of a sweeping statement to say that you can't educate people with ADHD. Well you can, but it is harder to do.

If you scare them enough, then you will be surprised what effect you can have.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

We are talking about the majority of people that go through the boy racer stage.

Yeah, I'm one of them.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

It is a bit of a sweeping statement to say that you can't educate people with ADHD. Well you can, but it is harder to do.

Yes it is a sweeping statement. It's also not what I said.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

If you scare them enough, then you will be surprised what effect you can have.

Indeed. You'll find they'll just practise their inside-lane overtaking etc until they think they've mastered it to the point of having the 'it'll never happen to me'. Show them incidents of other people thinking the same and it may calm them down slightly for a while but the old nature will come through.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yeah, I'm one of them.



Yes it is a sweeping statement. It's also not what I said.



Indeed. You'll find they'll just practise their inside-lane overtaking etc until they think they've mastered it to the point of having the 'it'll never happen to me'. Show them incidents of other people thinking the same and it may calm them down slightly for a while but the old nature will come through.

There are some people who you will never educate. But the majority of them you can.

This is just one example of a video that actually has many students in tears, and will probably stay will them for their whole lives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsw3xneor8

You seem intelligent enough, that such images would probably have stuck with you, and probably would have made a difference.

You use undertaking as an example. Well if they saw the consequences of undertaking, then they would probably be less likely to do it.

[Hom3r]

Well I drive on the motorway everyday.

I would ban lorrys from lane 2 to 4 in the rain.

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Speed doesn't kill, it's the pratts behind the wheel who drive outside their skill level.