TiVo : Why can't Virgin Media ever get their customer service right??

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Masque

But the last agent got it right and therefore how can he be a liar if he resolved your issue, remember all businesses have processes including your own but as I said in an earlier post I bet you will bend a rule if it satisfies the customer and gets you that all important sale, am I not right?

If you read my first post you will see that first of all he lied to me, saying that it was impossible to sort it out. It was only when I was so furious with being lied to, that I said I would close my account and take it to Sky. It is only when I said this that he put me on hold (I presume to speak to a manager). When he came back he completely contradicted himself by saying that what was impossible 2 mins earlier, he had now done.

The difference with my company is that I set the rules. But I would expect my staff to always call me (or someone else who would know), if there was something that they didn't know. And I would never employ anyone who lied to customers, because that is the worst kind of customer service.

Even if you have to let a customer down, they would much rather be told the truth than lied to.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

It has been repeatedly explained to you what the CSR meant by 'not possible'. If you're too proud to admit you got it wrong when you called a decent, helpful member of staff a liar, it's your loss.

Chris, you aren't the font of all knowledge, so you don't know what was meant.

The fact is that a statement saying "it isn't possible" means exactly that. It doesn't mean "it isn't possible unless I go and ask a manager how to do it". If that had been the case then he would have said something like "I don't think that is possible, but I'll find out"......can't you understand that Chris

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

I would assume that is a given for all companies but i notice that it is harder to keep that aim the bigger a company gets simply because of the different levels of expertise within a large company ,it is much easier to train 10 people to the same standard and keep them there than 1,000 ,plus i would imagine the high staff turnover has a lot to do with it .I have never worked in a call center but i would imagine that there are people who have worked there anywhere from 5yrs to 5 minutes and it's just pot luck which one the customer gets

All they have to do is to train them that if they don't know something, to tell the customer that they are going to check, and then go and ask someone. Customers would much rather they do this, than to be told an untrue statement.

[Mr K]

FWIW the I've found CS in this country to be very good. However most calls seem to get routed overseas where it's very poor and they can't stray from their scripts.

I only ever choose the 'thinking of leaving option' when ringing for whatever reason because I know I'll get good customer service from UK agents (they don't seem to mind).

Guess it's a cost/profit/customer satisfaction balance that VM getting wrong. Are we prepared to pay more for UK base called centres and better CS ? (i would, a little more anyway )

[MovedGoalPosts]

I really don't get the extent to which this thread has been rumbling on debating the use of the word "impossible" and that in turn seems to have become such a massive issue and outright lie. It seems harsh to me.

The first few responses clearly indicate the use of the word impossible was appropriate in a figure of speech way as the standard systems in place to the service agent did not allow the changes you were expecting. Further enquiries by your agent then later revealed there was a way to workaround or bend the IT systems in place, but it seems to be that use of that is a rather extreme way of solvinng the problem.

I don't see that it is fair to call the use of the word "impossible", as meaning an outright lie in this instance. After all if Ofcom, the ASA and whoever can allow the use of the word "unlimited" to describe many broadband and phone services, when there are restrictions in place, it is clear to me that the English language is allowed to be distorted.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by nstokes

in some ways you are correct, i have been working at the same one for over 6 years and tbf i dont know it all as no one person can know everything, i still get things wrong and sometimes my calls arnt always the best but i learn from it and take things on board, i have had customer like Tim before and tbh i deal with the issue and if they have anything bad to say about me when they have no need i leave it and forgot get, move on to the next one, if i had done something incorrect then i understand his POV but the agent he is talking about (4th call) didnt do anything wrong apart from maybe have used the wrong wording but he sorted the issue out

So what sort of customer am I?????

It seems that you have your own impression of me being some sort of Victor Meldrew. Well I'm afraid you have got me all wrong.

You forget that I also deal with customers. And I know that some of them are impossible to please, no matter what you do or say. But I'm not one of them. If you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that I had excellent service from VM Tivo support only last night. And in fact the gentleman actually diagnosed and reported faults on my phone lines at the same time.



As you said, you don't get it right all the time, none of us do. But when you don't know something, do you go and find out for the customer, or do you just lie to them?

What you can't seem to grasp is that his statement "it isn't possible" was used in the context that nothing could be done, so tough luck. So it wasn't just his wording, he wanted to end the conversation.

[tweetiepooh]

Me thinks that some of the heat in this discussion is the calling an individual a liar rather than the company/system.

There is a concept called "lying to children" where you tell an untruth to explain something that the listener can't or won't understand. (At this time of year there is an obvious one being told and shown repeatedly.) Now maybe there is need for a process/system change but until that happens just telling the customer this can't be done will normally suffice. Maybe some explanation could be given but again would the customer understand and is there time to do so, plenty more folk in the queue.

So while the response is "untrue" it's good enough for most situations. Now that doesn't excuse the failures in this particular case and the OP then pushed back and got something done.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Mr K

FWIW the I've found CS in this country to be very good. However most calls seem to get routed overseas where it's very poor and they can't stray from their scripts.

I only ever choose the 'thinking of leaving option' when ringing for whatever reason because I know I'll get good customer service from UK agents (they don't seem to mind).

Guess it's a cost/profit/customer satisfaction balance that VM getting wrong. Are we prepared to pay more for UK base called centres and better CS ? (i would, a little more anyway )

I agree with you that CS is worse with the overseas call centres. And I usually expect better from the UK ones.

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Me thinks that some of the heat in this discussion is the calling an individual a liar rather than the company/system.

There is a concept called "lying to children" where you tell an untruth to explain something that the listener can't or won't understand. (At this time of year there is an obvious one being told and shown repeatedly.) Now maybe there is need for a process/system change but until that happens just telling the customer this can't be done will normally suffice. Maybe some explanation could be given but again would the customer understand and is there time to do so, plenty more folk in the queue.

So while the response is "untrue" it's good enough for most situations. Now that doesn't excuse the failures in this particular case and the OP then pushed back and got something done.

I have said on many occasions in this thread, the CSR made a untrue statement which is a lie. Now many people have said that it was propbably down to his poor training. So if had been trained to do so by VM, then it is the company that I have a problem with. Now the 4th CSR wasn't responsible for the other 3 getting it wrong, but all 4 represent VM, so my gripe is with VM (as I quite clearly said in my first post).

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Rob

I really don't get the extent to which this thread has been rumbling on debating the use of the word "impossible" and that in turn seems to have become such a massive issue and outright lie. It seems harsh to me.

The first few responses clearly indicate the use of the word impossible was appropriate in a figure of speech way as the standard systems in place to the service agent did not allow the changes you were expecting. Further enquiries by your agent then later revealed there was a way to workaround or bend the IT systems in place, but it seems to be that use of that is a rather extreme way of solvinng the problem.

I don't see that it is fair to call the use of the word "impossible", as meaning an outright lie in this instance. After all if Ofcom, the ASA and whoever can allow the use of the word "unlimited" to describe many broadband and phone services, when there are restrictions in place, it is clear to me that the English language is allowed to be distorted.

Read post 154.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

All they have to do is to train them that if they don't know something, to tell the customer that they are going to check, and then go and ask someone. Customers would much rather they do this, than to be told an untrue statement.

So are you still saying that VM train there staff to lie Tim yes or no ?

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

So what sort of customer am I?????

It seems that you have your own impression of me being some sort of Victor Meldrew. Well I'm afraid you have got me all wrong.

You forget that I also deal with customers. And I know that some of them are impossible to please, no matter what you do or say. But I'm not one of them. If you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that I had excellent service from VM Tivo support only last night. And in fact the gentleman actually diagnosed and reported faults on my phone lines at the same time.



As you said, you don't get it right all the time, none of us do. But when you don't know something, do you go and find out for the customer, or do you just lie to them?

What you can't seem to grasp is that his statement "it isn't possible" was used in the context that nothing could be done, so tough luck. So it wasn't just his wording, he wanted to end the conversation.

YOur the type of person who isnt a really easy goign person , but nither am i trust me my wife cringes at the complainent i make to companies usually 3-10 pages in length and gneeral cite laws if appicable or things that make godo cusotmer service.

The problem most people are having that your doign worng in peoples eyes.... is you are callign the 4th agent a liar it is very harsh word and not appriotate in this instance, lets jsut say he has a disabilty and no matter how much training he gets he will never remeber now you callinga someonea liar due toa disabilty woudl then take you to the extent of being a criminal under law no one really is disputing the system is crap and needs to be better it is how your treating the last cs you spoke to as beinga liar, drop the liar bit and people will more likely agree with you, i suggest you go read a english dictorionary of what lier is, it is someone who knowinly tells you something that is not true, someone who gives the wrong information has just madea mistake and there is no way in the world you would ever know he has intetnionally lied to you on the phone unless he has said he did????

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Sirius

So are you still saying that VM train there staff to lie Tim yes or no ?

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Right under the english dictonary give us your proof he lied, and he saying its impossible doesnt count.

Neglish dictonary says a liar is someone who knowing tells oyu something that is untrue so prove how he knowigy said something that is untrue and traing doesnt count as hacks and way round the system dnt count as there not meant to be used as they could break teh system

i look forward to your response because if you can prove it i will admit yoru right otherwise your wrong

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

I am not twisting your words, You have stated on this forum that VM train there staff to lie so have you now changed that that accusation or not.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

YOur the type of person who isnt a really easy goign person , but nither am i trust me my wife cringes at the complainent i make to companies usually 3-10 pages in length and gneeral cite laws if appicable or things that make godo cusotmer service.

Well you don't actually know me so you can't say that. However, I am very easy going until people try to fob me off or lie to me. I was very polite and friendly with the other three CSR's (even though inside I was a bit miffed by the third call).

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

The problem most people are having that your doign worng in peoples eyes.... is you are callign the 4th agent a liar it is very harsh word and not appriotate in this instance, lets jsut say he has a disabilty and no matter how much training he gets he will never remeber now you callinga someonea liar due toa disabilty woudl then take you to the extent of being a criminal under law no one really is disputing the system is crap and needs to be better it is how your treating the last cs you spoke to as beinga liar, drop the liar bit and people will more likely agree with you, i suggest you go read a english dictorionary of what lier is, it is someone who knowinly tells you something that is not true, someone who gives the wrong information has just madea mistake and there is no way in the world you would ever know he has intetnionally lied to you on the phone unless he has said he did????

He knowingly (or ignorantly) told me something that wasn't true, because he was either too lazy to either sort the problem, or to ask someone who did know. So as he represents VM, then I was lied to by VM, as they told me something that wasn't true.


It's a bit like someone saying that milk carton is full, when they haven't actually checked (because they can't be bothered). Now is it a lie or not? It doesn't chage the fact that they were trying to fob someone off because they couldn't be bothered.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

I am not twisting your words, You have stated on this forum that VM train there staff to lie so have you now changed that that accusation or not.

Read my reply.

If as many people have said, he was following his training. Then it is those people who are saying that he was trained to lie.

[oyez]

I have been a customer with Ntl/virgin for approx 20 years,I phoned up last month to cancel because of an ongoing tv problem the woman I spoke to seemed helpful enough and asked me three times are you sure you still want to cancel I answered yes.
Today I got my virgin media bill which showed I was being charged for the period dec26/jan 25 I phoned to query this as I was leaving Virgin and was told that my request to give 30 days notice had not been put on the system so I would have to give another 30 days.

The guy I spoke to today gave me a termination date and also a date to collect the equipment. But I still have to pay for another Month

Customer service is abysmal

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Speaking of twisting words, you are utilising sophistry yourself, imho - you are stating you are not saying VM CSR's are trained to lie, and in fact you are stating that your interpretation of what others are saying is that VM CSR's are trained to lie; the people who you are referring to deny this interpretation, but you insist on repeating it.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Speaking of twisting words, you are utilising sophistry yourself, imho - you are stating you are not saying VM CSR's are trained to lie, and in fact you are stating that your interpretation of what others are saying is that VM CSR's are trained to lie; the people who you are referring to deny this interpretation, but you insist on repeating it.

I have just tried to search for the thread that the accusations are in but i don't seem to be able to find anything before November ??? will keep looking.

Tim directly stated it in one of his posts and said he HAD proof but when asked to produce it none was forth coming


found it

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

I'm afraid you are very wrong.

To start with, any staff who deal with customers should not bring problems to work. And therefore personal issues should NEVER have any bearing on the way they deal with customers.

Staff who can't do the above quite simply shouldn't be employed in positions dealing with the public.

If a company (whatever size) employs the right people, and trains them properly, then this alone should eliminate most complaints.

Worst of all is when staff are actually trained to lie to customers, as I have come across a few times with VM.

To be honest I am disgusted that there are two members of VM staff in this forum who instead of passing on customers concerns, actually try and make excuses, and even deny that there is a problem. Well as I have said many times, there is a serious problem with VM's customer service.

You have to remember that VM aren't retailers, they provide a service. And this is a service that should run trouble free on a day to day basis. And I have to say that it usually does, and is in fact very reliable. Even when there are faults that cause disruption in the service, then I accept that as with all technology, this can happen occasionally. And although it can be very annoying (especially when trying to run businesses that rely on communications and IT), it isn't really grounds for a complaint as long as the problem is sorted quickly. With retailers they are relying on products manufactured by third parties, and therefore they are more likely to have complaints.

Complaints usually start out as problems. It's the way that these problems are dealt with that decides if it becomes a complaint. And this is where VM fall flat on their face as far as customer service goes.

The best single way to improve VM's customer service would be to bring the call centres back to the UK. Oh, and stop training staff to lie.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35304151-post33.html