Do we need a United States Of Europe

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it fools, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

Always the same, When your losing it revert to name calling

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Always the same, When your losing it revert to name calling

Sorry This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Sorry This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

So do you feel if YOU repeat yourself enough time's it will magically happen ????

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Sirius

So do you feel if YOU repeat yourself enough time's it will magically happen ????

No I was correcting my post!

[pabscars]

Q. Do we need a United States Of Europe ?
A. Nah,,,,, I'm good thanks

Next Q should be . Do we need Europe
A. Nah,,,, I'd rather put my head in a vice thanks, whilst dangling my testicles in a vat of sulphuric acid and listening to Jedward,,,,,,,,,,, on repeat.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Sorry This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

It must suck to be you......

You are continuously pessimistic, hoping our problems will be solved by the magic of Big Brother Eurozone (when current evidence shows that Big Brother Eurozone is up ordure creek), and then you try to compare current problems with the fall of the Roman Empire, which took place over a couple of hundred years and was due to multiple factors, including decadence, corruption, lead piping, too many foreign wars, etc. etc., and you seem to forget that Diocletian decided to divide the Empire because it was too large to be ruled by one person.

You really are comparing apples with orangutans....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it fools, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

If being in the EU had enriched the UK and the other component nations I would agree with you. As it is even by the EU's own figures the costs of EU regulation far outweigh the savings of being within the EU. I'm talking a difference of 600bln Euros in costs vs 180bln Euros in savings.

The Euro has certainly enriched Germany, they've had an artificially weak currency to pimp their exports with for years, and the EU has enriched France with the various subsidies they extract especially under the CAP. Many other members the benefits are a tad more marginal.

If you could actually back up your assertions that we need a USE else we'll go bankrupt that would be appreciated as the evidence doesn't appear to favour it.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by denphone

Nice to be called a fool but perhaps you need to open your eyes and see the current chaos and shambles in Europe at the moment as we are better off being on the outside looking in rather then being on the inside and probably facing the fate as some other countries have faced.

right and there is no chaos and shambles here?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it fools, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

You don't normally get people to see things from your prospective by calling them fools, even MP's have to decency to just think we're fools rather than say it.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

right and there is no chaos and shambles here?

Well at least we have not defaulted or lost our triple AAA credit rating even though our growth has stalled totally.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it fools, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

I'd suggest you refrain from calling others fools, especially when the site rules specify that you should not attack others. You've already been warned in the other thread to be civil so either follow that advice or leave the thread. There will be no more warnings

Being pragmatic we in Europe do need to stick together the logistics of remaining on our own seem to be incalculable,already the uks aircraft carriers are due to have er---no aircraft it is rumoured French planes wil be flying from them,the french ie EDF are due to build the next generation of nuclear power stations in the uk,and the germans own some of the power suppliers we currently have,need i mention BMW owns the mini plant and even Rols Royce ,and the french licence vans that are built in Luton.

Now i am European and am proud of being so,i suspect if the poll was do you want to be a part of the united states of america the answer would be different or am i being too cynical,would not want to be in the "51st" state myself,but am quite willing to be a part of the region in which i live.

The above are just examples of the European investment the uk gets in.

I voted no because right now we need to be a member of the EU like we need a hole in the head. It beggers belief that at a time when the single currency is in the mess it is that there are still some people wanting the UK to go diving into full integration. As it stands right now the EU is little more then a benefits club for france and germany with little or no benefit to other memebr states but a lot of cost involved.

With the EU as it stands right now i do not want to be in and will never want to be in does that mean i am against being a european no it doesn't it just means i have no intention of being a lapdog in a biased union. I think the EU needs to be scrapped in it's current form it is nothing more then a massive beaurocracy, corrupt to the enth degree (have they managed to get the books signed off yet) and despite having many states as members does little or nothing for the majority of them.

At some point in the future were a union of fair and EQUAL states be suggested i would be more then happy to weigh it on it's merits and would probably support membership but i cannot see that happening anytime soon. As for the comparison to the fall of rome lol just lol could you be anymore ignorant of either subject as there is no realistic comparison to be made in the two situations.

We are on the brink of another tech revolution clean energy and all the alternatives that brings with it in all areas and whether were in or out of the EU won't make much difference. If we don't start moving over to that area rather then flog the dead horse that is old industry we will be sealing our own economical fate. Thats where the future lies not in huge monolithic unions but in being on the ground floor building fast in new technologies.

It is that in the past that made us rich and it is that in the future that will determine if we stay rich or slowly slip into poverty EU or no EU won't alter that.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by pabscars

Q. Do we need a United States Of Europe ?
A. Nah,,,,, I'm good thanks

Next Q should be . Do we need Europe
A. Nah,,,, I'd rather put my head in a vice thanks, whilst dangling my testicles in a vat of sulphuric acid and listening to Jedward,,,,,,,,,,, on repeat.

Very well put Sir

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

It must suck to be you......

You are continuously pessimistic, hoping our problems will be solved by the magic of Big Brother Eurozone (when current evidence shows that Big Brother Eurozone is up ordure creek), and then you try to compare current problems with the fall of the Roman Empire, which took place over a couple of hundred years and was due to multiple factors, including decadence, corruption, lead piping, too many foreign wars, etc. etc., and you seem to forget that Diocletian decided to divide the Empire because it was too large to be ruled by one person.

You really are comparing apples with orangutans....

But Hugh Alan says all will be peachy in the United States of France and Germany

[MovedGoalPosts]

As the euro experiment has proven the member states of Europe are too disimilar for a complete Union to work at present. Economic policies of countries don't match up, and then there is the fundamental problem of different interpretations of laws and regulations that some seem to follow more closely than others. Last but not least is the problem of language, and thus culture, something that other unions such as the USA really don't face.

It's worth looking at the break up of the USSR. In part that failed due to the fall of communism, but it is was the closest thing we saw in terms of attempts at unification of disparate countries, cultures and economies to one political mindset. Why should anyone think that Europe can achieve that level of success?

Unions such as the USA, achieved their coming together to commonality in the days before our modern media allowed the majority of the populace to be instantly aware of what was going on. Political power was in the hands of a real few, and economics were largely insular due to the difficulties of communication and transport. Those unions have then had time to develop and react to modern global economies.

The EU started out as a community with the aim of trying to improve trade between countries. Somehow that has gradually become confused with a wider powerhouse ambition. But the reality is that our sovereign govenments are seen as more important than the EU. In fact, for the EU to become a true union we have to start seeing a stage where we, the individual public, have direct control by election of whoever is President, and we hear a lot more from our representatives in the EU parliament having proper control over the direction of the individual states and their policies. If the EU was to be important, it would be the EU parliament that would be sorting out the euro fiasco, not the premiers and governments of each country. And it is entirely because the euro parliament is a waste of resources with no real teeth that the Euro, could never work.

Europe needs to wind itself back a bit, forget it's growth ambitions, and revert to it's original aims to promote trade between natiions rather than interfering with additional red tape. For some years to come I have to say we don't need a United States of Europe, but we do need a common trading platform.