Eurozone will collapse...

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by downquark1

There's a sickening strong pro EU bias on another forum I read. I'm not sure which I find more depressing. This forum is more civil however.

which forum?

[Osem]

For me being for/against the EU has much more to do with how far it goes and whether it can work in practice than anything else. I think we've discovered that it hasn't worked and needs major reform if there's any chance that it will do so in future.

Just found this on the BBC News site.

1346: An editorial in the French newspaper, Le Monde, is not surprised by Britain's position: "Let's be fair. The British have nothing to do with the euro crisis. They are not responsible for the inability of the eurozone leaders to resolve their sovereign debt problems. It makes sense that the British resist a move towards greater economic and budgetary integration. They don't believe in it. They do not believe in the idea of the European Union. Britain, which joined the then European Economic Community in 1973, is interested just in one thing: the single market. They [the British] are indifferent about the rest of the European project, when they are not hostile to it."

Allies en France????

My main concern would be that in isolation we would have little influence on Europe and could be left out if they solve their problems and surge ahead successfully...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

My main concern would be that in isolation we would have little influence on Europe and could be left out if they solve their problems and surge ahead successfully...

True and on the other hand if it goes pear shaped we suffer even more possibly. This is a very difficult issue and if we had a funtioning crystal ball it'd help greatly. Anyway, how isolated we really are won't be known until the reform is complete and agreement reached. If it all falls apart, as could well be the case when the stark choices have to be made, we may not be quite so lonely.

Uncharted waters methinks.

[Gary L]

Everybody hates us. that's what I like to see.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Everybody hates us. that's what I like to see.

That's 'cos you're used to it

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

My main concern would be that in isolation we would have little influence on Europe and could be left out if they solve their problems and surge ahead successfully...

If I thought Europe resolving its problems and surging ahead successfully were in any way likely I'd agree with you.

I don't.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

fine, but there is a clear anti-EU bias round here!

That anti-EU bias is probably quite reflective of popular opinion within the UK.

Many want trade, friendship, co-operation, nothing else. No common fisheries policy, no common agricultural policy and definitely no political or fiscal union.

I'm sorry Alan but if you want me to take the EU seriously you have to do slightly better than the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the President of the European Commission let alone the President of the European Council.

So you have a former PM of Belgium, the country that just took over a year and a half to form a government, clearly great advertisement for political union, a former Maoist Communist, and a former CND treasurer who has never been elected to office by a public plebiscite ever holding three top jobs.

Yay.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

If I thought Europe resolving its problems and surging ahead successfully were in any way likely I'd agree with you.

I don't.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------



That anti-EU bias is probably quite reflective of popular opinion within the UK.

Many want trade, friendship, co-operation, nothing else. No common fisheries policy, no common agricultural policy and definitely no political or fiscal union.

I'm sorry Alan but if you want me to take the EU seriously you have to do slightly better than the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the President of the European Commission let alone the President of the European Council.

So you have a former PM of Belgium, the country that just took over a year and a half to form a government, clearly great advertisement for political union, a former Maoist Communist, and a former CND treasurer who has never been elected to office by a public plebiscite ever holding three top jobs.

Yay.

If acted all in the nation interest then, what we will get is somithing like WW2

The United States of Europe would work (unlike Belgium) because there would be no domineering group within the EU (in Belgium, what is happining is that the French and Dutch are both viving for control)

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

If acted all in the nation interest then, what we will get is somithing like WW2

The United States of Europe would work (unlike Belgium) because there would be no domineering group within the EU (in Belgium, what is happining is that the French and Dutch are both viving for control)

I doubt the Flemish would appreciate being called Dutch.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

The United States of Europe would work (unlike Belgium) because there would be no domineering group within the EU

Because clearly there's no 'domineering group' within the EU right now.

Oh wait.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Because clearly there's no 'domineering group' within the EU right now.

Oh wait.

yes there is Germany, France and (formely) Britain, but they are not completly dominant

It is people like you ans Sirus that will be responsbile for the decline and fall of Europe!

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

yes there is Germany, France and (formely) Britain, but they are not completly dominant

It is people like you ans Sirus that will be responsbile for the decline and fall of Europe!

Tad late for people like us to be responsible for the decline of Europe to be honest.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

yes there is Germany, France and (formely) Britain, but they are not completly dominant

It is people like you ans Sirus that will be responsbile for the decline and fall of Europe!

Stop panicking and consider Switzerland

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Stop panicking and consider Switzerland

Or Norway.

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita

1 Luxembourg 108,952
2 Norway 84,144
3 Qatar 74,901
4 Switzerland 67,779

— European Union[4] 32,537

[Chrysalis]

Europe will recover and its joint strength will have the UK the equivelent of an ant vs a lion.

We not a major power anymore, we produce almost nothing and I expect worser times ahead.