For those of us unfit to work

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not taking sides, and all cases are different. But some employers will pay people to work from home as data imputters. Although I very much doubt that there would be enough of those sort of jobs to go around all the people who are housebound

If the data being inputted is electronic then they wouldn't need me to input it.

If it isn't then they'd need to pay for a decent / working cctv for me to be able to do it.

Which brings me back to who's going to pay for that kit?

There is acceess to work but it won't pay for all of that only a part of it.

The problem I find at the moment is that people really do see the cane and not my ability to do the job and are scared by the fact they may have to make adjustments (reasonable adjustments I mean). Then they also see that I am in hospital two or three times a week on average.

But I'm still working on getting a job, it's just going to take a while.

All this doesn't stop me repetedly being told I'm a benefit cheat and or scrounger, leech, drain on society, should be gassed to stop wasting rescources. All that kind of thing.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

If the data being inputted is electronic then they wouldn't need me to input it.

If it isn't then they'd need to pay for a decent / working cctv for me to be able to do it.

Which brings me back to who's going to pay for that kit?

There is acceess to work but it won't pay for all of that only a part of it.

The problem I find at the moment is that people really do see the cane and not my ability to do the job and are scared by the fact they may have to make adjustments (reasonable adjustments I mean). Then they also see that I am in hospital two or three times a week on average.

But I'm still working on getting a job, it's just going to take a while.

All this doesn't stop me repetedly being told I'm a benefit cheat and or scrounger, leech, drain on society, should be gassed to stop wasting rescources. All that kind of thing.

People can say or think what they want as some people will always do that but you and l know and many others know that you have never been a benefit cheat or any of the other above things at all.

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

If the data being inputted is electronic then they wouldn't need me to input it.

If it isn't then they'd need to pay for a decent / working cctv for me to be able to do it.

Which brings me back to who's going to pay for that kit?

There is acceess to work but it won't pay for all of that only a part of it.

The problem I find at the moment is that people really do see the cane and not my ability to do the job and are scared by the fact they may have to make adjustments (reasonable adjustments I mean). Then they also see that I am in hospital two or three times a week on average.

But I'm still working on getting a job, it's just going to take a while.

All this doesn't stop me repetedly being told I'm a benefit cheat and or scrounger, leech, drain on society, should be gassed to stop wasting rescources. All that kind of thing.

There are those of us who know that when you were able to work you did so without complaint.

[Osem]

Sadly, in life other people say, think and do all sorts of things we might find distasteful. When we're confronted with those who'd judge us unfairly or make unpleasant generalised comments on the disabled, welfare claimants etc. we put it down to their ignorance and try to educate them. By ignorance, I mean lack of knowledge about the facts as opposed to a lack of intelligence or simple ill-informed prejudice. We try hard not to take such comments personally and tend to give these people the benefit of the doubt. In each case we might be right or wrong to do this but we've found that refusing to take it personally (and reacting accordingly) whenever possible makes dealing with such comments/behaviour that much easier. You can't educate everyone and letting them get you down just makes life harder.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Then you would lose the argument.You can't disagree with someone by stating something is so without providing proof.That is not how debate or discussion takes place.Without proof what you say is hearsay,innuendo and suggestion all of which would lose you any case on a court of law or a debating society or a mere forum.Unless you prove what you say is true then you are not proven to be telling the truth just providing unsubstantiated gossip.

Now if we were down the pub that you could get away with this but as we are using one of the most powerful research tools then there is no excuse for you not to back up sweeping statements with the truth...unless they don't have a word of truth to them.

That Maggy is the point i had when an accusation was made that VM train there staff to lie, I challenged that statement by asking for proof, NON was forthcoming so in my eye's the statement was not validated and is therefor totally incorrect and i feel a falsehood.

I would love to continue this but it would take the thread off topic.

Originally Posted by Osem

Sadly, in life other people say, think and do all sorts of things we might find distasteful. When we're confronted with those who'd judge us unfairly or make unpleasant generalised comments on the disabled, welfare claimants etc. we put it down to their ignorance and try to educate them. By ignorance, I mean lack of knowledge about the facts as opposed to a lack of intelligence or simple ill-informed prejudice. We try hard not to take such comments personally and tend to give these people the benefit of the doubt. In each case we might be right or wrong to do this but we've found that refusing to take it personally (and reacting accordingly) whenever possible makes dealing with such comments/behaviour that much easier. You can't educate everyone and letting them get you down just makes life harder.

Well said and for those who are rightfully making claims i feel sorry for them, Why because they now have to fight for there benefits because of those who are conning the system and claiming benefits when they should not be. The system is being made harder to try and catch the benefit thieves but it is putting the legitimate claimants at a disadvantage.

[Kingofthedead4]

Due to having my appeal adjourned I no longer have the money to travel to the hospital and back, as I can only use a taxi. So I am now having to ask for transport which will cost the government more. For your information I am paid £210 per fortnight esa and would have to pay £9 each way to the hospital 1 a week. The ESA is for me and my wife.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Well said and for those who are rightfully making claims i feel sorry for them, Why because they now have to fight for there benefits because of those who are conning the system and claiming benefits when they should not be. The system is being made harder to try and catch the benefit thieves but it is putting the legitimate claimants at a disadvantage.

I think it's more to do with cut backs and being easy targets all round, and nothing to do with the fraudsters.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by peanut

I think it's more to do with cut backs and being easy targets all round, and nothing to do with the fraudsters.

Given the number of successful appeals I think you're right.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Given the number of successful appeals I think you're right.

Not only are genuine claimants being put through a horrendous financial and stressful nightmare, the cost of the all the successful Appeals also worries me.

If my team of Decision Makers had been shown to have so many of their decisions overturned at the appeal stage there would have been a lot of pressure put on to us to find out why. The fact that ,up to now, it appears that no efforts are being made to sort this out makes me suspicious about the guidance being given to the DMs on how to interpret the evidence put before them and I only wish I had access to the official guidelines they have been given.

Some interesting stats here - ESA October 2011

Page 2

For all new ESA Claims from 27th October 2008 to 28th February 2011, the result of the initial WCA is as follows:

1. Support Group – 7%
2. Work Related Activity Group – 17% (22% after appeals)
3. Fit for Work – 38% (33% after appeals)
4. Claim closed before assessment complete – 36%
5. Assessment still in progress – 2%

Page 8

3.3 WCA appeals
3.3.1 Of people who made a claim for ESA between October 2008 and August 2010 and who were found Fit for Work at assessment, 39% have had an appeal heard by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service to date. The original decision made by DWP has been confirmed for 62% of these appeals heard. These figures are taken from Table 3 in the accompanying spreadsheet.

- Support Group (for those with severe disabilities) – they receive ESA at a higher rate of benefit entitlement overall and exemption from mandatory work-related activity such as engagement with the Work Programme;
- Work Related Activity Group – they receive ESA at a higher rate of benefit than those on JSA and are mandated to engage with work-related activity such as the Work Programme;
- Fit for Work – the ESA claim is ceased but individuals can ask for a reconsideration or appeal if they disagree with the decision.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Some interesting stats here - ESA October 2011

Page 2Page 8

- Support Group (for those with severe disabilities) – they receive ESA at a higher rate of benefit entitlement overall and exemption from mandatory work-related activity such as engagement with the Work Programme;
- Work Related Activity Group – they receive ESA at a higher rate of benefit than those on JSA and are mandated to engage with work-related activity such as the Work Programme;
- Fit for Work – the ESA claim is ceased but individuals can ask for a reconsideration or appeal if they disagree with the decision.

An interesting read as you say Hugh, thanks for the link.

Having skimmed through the report I can see on the face of it that the Decision Makers appear to being kept on a very tight reign. Item 4.3.3 refers. This report only explains the statistics and I would be interested to see the Departments internal interpretation of these figures. Having a third of claimants win their WCA Appeal does seem back up the fact that something is going wrong.

3.3.1 Of people who made a claim for ESA between October 2008 and August 2010 and who were found Fit for Work at assessment, 39% have had an appeal heard by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service to date. The original decision made by DWP has been confirmed for 62% of these appeals heard.

Yup - One in three appeals winning means (to me) that something isn't right in the initial scoring criteria.