Muslims against crusades banned

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

good news but a pointless exercise as the members will just reform under a different name as they have in the past .

Anyone else think this is good timing(and by good timing i mean cynicle) on Teresa Mays part given the trouble she is in over the Borders debacle

Sad but true. A token exercise really.

May's certainly in hot water but she's hardly the first Home Secretary to have come a cropper in some way related to immigration. Yvette Cooper may shout and scream but we all know the 'system' was farcical for 13 years under the last government and still is. Quelle surprise....

Originally Posted by Russ

You've helped emphasise a point I often make - it's not your or my place to decide who is or isn't a "good" Christian/Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/whatever. We can comment on whether we feel someone's actions have fallen short of what we personally might expect from someone of faith but a person's beliefs are their own and justifiable to themselves only - and their chosen deity.

For example I don't view the whole MAC ethos to be very Islamic. I don't know any of them personally so I can't be sure but in my opinion I would say their actions fall short of what their holy book guides them to do. And they'd be just as within their rights to disagree with me.

Swings and roundabouts.

surely though the majority view is accepted to decide what is right and wrong within a religion .If,for example ,the majority of muslims said that blowing up christians was the right way to go then that would be accepted as part of the religion and MACS would be counted as good Muslims ...but it isn't .A Muslim in this thread has said that he doesn't count the MACS as Muslims because of their actions and i hope that is a reflection of the feelings of most Muslims(and i choose to believe that it is) therefore they are not counted as Muslim

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

therefore they are not counted as Muslim

What is a Muslim that doesn't follow Islam?
is Muslim a religion?
why do the media report a group of Muslims when we haven't determined whether they are 'religious'
they don't report a group of 'Christians'

Originally Posted by Gary L

What is a Muslim that doesn't follow Islam?
is Muslim a religion?
why do the media report a group of Muslims when we haven't determined whether they are 'religious'
they don't report a group of 'Christians'

What the hell are you on about now

Originally Posted by Gary L

What is a Muslim that doesn't follow Islam? Not a Muslim
is Muslim a religion? No - Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a follower of Islam
why do the media report a group of Muslims when we haven't determined whether they are 'religious' Simplistic dog-whistle labelling to provoke a reaction
they don't report a group of 'Christians'Because using "Christians" as a label doesn't invoke the same dog-whistle response

[Russ]

Originally Posted by martyh

surely though the majority view is accepted to decide what is right and wrong within a religion .

No, it's your own morals to decide if something is right or wrong. But just because someone decides something right/wrong does not make it universally so.

There is a very common misconception in atheism that all followers of a certain faith believe exactly the same things. This could not be further from the truth. Just because I have a different view to say, Chris about some aspects of the bible does not mean either of us are right or wrong.

Originally Posted by martyh

If,for example ,the majority of muslims said that blowing up christians was the right way to go then that would be accepted as part of the religion and MACS would be counted as good Muslims ...but it isn't .

No, because there is no universal decree in Islam over what is right or wrong. yes you have extremist leaders who speak to their followers but they do not speak for all of Islam.

Originally Posted by martyh

A Muslim in this thread has said that he doesn't count the MACS as Muslims because of their actions and i hope that is a reflection of the feelings of most Muslims(and i choose to believe that it is) therefore they are not counted as Muslim

I'd agree with his sentiment but that does not make me right or wrong, for there is nobody on earth to decide what is right or wrong in those circumstances. Morally we may be right but again, morals are subjective.

No leader of any major religion/faith has the commanding say on what his/her followers believe, no not even the pope. Just because he claims something to be so does not mean all Catholics automatically agree and comply.

Originally Posted by Russ

No, it's your own morals to decide if something is right or wrong. But just because someone decides something right/wrong does not make it universally so.

There is a very common misconception in atheism that all followers of a certain faith believe exactly the same things. This could not be further from the truth. Just because I have a different view to say, Chris about some aspects of the bible does not mean either of us are right or wrong.



No, because there is no universal decree in Islam over what is right or wrong. yes you have extremist leaders who speak to their followers but they do not speak for all of Islam.



I'd agree with his sentiment but that does not make me right or wrong, for there is nobody on earth to decide what is right or wrong in those circumstances. Morally we may be right but again, morals are subjective.

No leader of any major religion/faith has the commanding say on what his/her followers believe, no not even the pope. Just because he claims something to be so does not mean all Catholics automatically agree and comply.

Actually i can't disagree with any of that

[Gary L]

Thanks Hugh.

another thing is what Russ is saying about different interpretations of a religion or belief, and one or the other could be right and wrong.

couldn't the same be said about Islam being a peaceful religion to one. and not so to the other?

Depends if one supports the premise of moral relativism - I don't.

[Ignitionnet]

Can we just have a thread discussing atheism, agnosticism and theism? Would be hard work for moderators but keeps encroaching whenever religion is mentioned, let's have it out

Originally Posted by Osem

Sad but true. A token exercise really.

May's certainly in hot water but she's hardly the first Home Secretary to have come a cropper in some way related to immigration. Yvette Cooper may shout and scream but we all know the 'system' was farcical for 13 years under the last government and still is. Quelle surprise....

Just as the last opposition where scream and shouting demanding heads roll. Selective memory on both sides if you ask me.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Can we just have a thread discussing atheism, agnosticism and theism? Would be hard work for moderators but keeps encroaching whenever religion is mentioned, let's have it out

sounds good to me why don't you start one

[Gary L]

I could start one. I haven't started a thread for a while

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I could start one. I haven't started a thread for a while

go for it we could do with a proper grown up debate