Conwy sisters tried to claim £161m in VAT, court hears

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-n...wales-15626365

Two sisters have gone on trial accused of trying to claim back £161m in VAT which they had never paid.
Andrea and Roberta Vaughan-Owen, of Colwyn Bay, also allegedly claimed tens of thousands of pounds in benefits to which they were not entitled.
Both are alleged to have claimed incapacity benefits and working tax credits at the same time, but expressed interest in a £315,000 Rolls Royce.

They shared a £400,000 home in Colwyn Bay, rented out a second property, had private health care, paid for private education for Andrea's children and expressed an interest in items such as a £315,000 Rolls Royce, the jury was told.

Words fail me..How come genuine claimants get turned down for benefits while such as these two get whatever they ask for?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-n...wales-15626365





Words fail me..How come genuine claimants get turned down for benefits while such as these two get whatever they ask for?

Yes l agree as l know several people who are claiming money when they should not get it at all and there are several who l know up the hospital with extremely serious conditions who got turned down including one who lives in my city.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-n...wales-15626365





Words fail me..How come genuine claimants get turned down for benefits while such as these two get whatever they ask for?

Because they know how to play the system like most of those that are not entitled to receive benefits but are stealing as much as they can while they can. These are the type that have forced the Government's hand and have made them take action at last, Unfortunately it also makes its harder for the genuine claimants

[Kingofthedead4]

In the last two years I have become less and less able to walk and do general tasks due to having inflammatory arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, elbows and hands. I applied for DLA last year and was turned down, mostly down to a letter from a doctor who I have NEVER seen saying I could walk. Today at 11.30 I have my appeal, wish me luck.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Because they know how to play the system like most of those that are not entitled to receive benefits but are stealing as much as they can while they can. These are the type that have forced the Government's hand and have made them take action at last, Unfortunately it also makes its harder for the genuine claimants

Part of the problem is government departments do not make enough checks on peoples entitlements as the article pointed out.

The second is if people are caught they seem to get suspended jail sentences and by crying poverty are able to pay it back at a £1 a week for years,what king of message does that send out?,if these two are guilty i wonder if the courts will cease their house to pay the government ie taxpayer back,somehow i doubt it sadly.

---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Kingofthedead4

In the last two years I have become less and less able to walk and do general tasks due to having inflammatory arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, elbows and hands. I applied for DLA last year and was turned down, mostly down to a letter from a doctor who I have NEVER seen saying I could walk. Today at 11.30 I have my appeal, wish me luck.

You sound genuine good luck today,sadly many genuine cases are refused whilst those that can manipulate the system hoover up.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by richard1960

The second is if people are caught they seem to get suspended jail sentences and by crying poverty are able to pay it back at a £1 a week for years.

And there is my point , They know how to play the system better than those whole need it the most. I know that there are people out there that will train you to pass the tests to be able to claim anything, They tell you how to walk, talk, fain breathing problems and then how to fill out the forms. All for a fee of course. But when you are able to get these payments on top of your normal wage it pays to go to these people.

Plus i feel the problem is bigger than the Government depts are admitting.

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Kingofthedead4

In the last two years I have become less and less able to walk and do general tasks due to having inflammatory arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, elbows and hands. I applied for DLA last year and was turned down, mostly down to a letter from a doctor who I have NEVER seen saying I could walk. Today at 11.30 I have my appeal, wish me luck.

Good luck indeed - let us know how you get on.

[Kingofthedead4]

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

Good luck indeed - let us know how you get on.

Thank you, will do.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Kingofthedead4

In the last two years I have become less and less able to walk and do general tasks due to having inflammatory arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, elbows and hands. I applied for DLA last year and was turned down, mostly down to a letter from a doctor who I have NEVER seen saying I could walk. Today at 11.30 I have my appeal, wish me luck.

I shall be thinking of you. I hope it goes well this time and just feel so frustrated that genuine people such as yourself have been put in this position.

[Kingofthedead4]

Originally Posted by joglynne

I shall be thinking of you. I hope it goes well this time and just feel so frustrated that genuine people such as yourself have been put in this position.

Thank you, the thing that surprised me is that they have seemed to make a decision on a doctors report who has never ever seen me. I have ankle straps, wrist straps, elbow straps, special gloves to stop my hands swelling and have to use crutches to walk small distances, anything longer than that and I have to use either a wheelchair or a mobility scooter.

Originally Posted by Sirius

And there is my point , They know how to play the system better than those whole need it the most. I know that there are people out there that will train you to pass the tests to be able to claim anything, They tell you how to walk, talk, fain breathing problems and then how to fill out the forms. All for a fee of course. But when you are able to get these payments on top of your normal wage it pays to go to these people.

Plus i feel the problem is bigger than the Government depts are admitting.

Spot on,although i do think a bigger problem is when they are found out the courts impose such laughable sentances as to almost encourage the fraud that is taking place.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Kingofthedead4

Thank you, the thing that surprised me is that they have seemed to make a decision on a doctors report who has never ever seen me. I have ankle straps, wrist straps, elbow straps, special gloves to stop my hands swelling and have to use crutches to walk small distances, anything longer than that and I have to use either a wheelchair or a mobility scooter.

The mind boggles at the stupidity of this weeding exercise. In theory it should have worked but the way it has been implemented is ridiculous and I don't know how the people in control of the evidence gathering can live with themselves as they must know how deeply flawed the procedures are.

From the original report.

Mr Taylor said working tax credit for people with lower incomes was "particularly easy to cheat" and civil servants "inept".
"They didn't make any inquiries, they didn't ask any questions," he added.
He told the jury: "You may be shocked to hear that all you had to do was pick up the phone and get through to the tax credit helpline and say 'the situation is still the same - I'm still working' and the money carried on".

Originally Posted by Maggy J

From the original report.

Indeed why i am not surprised.

I have a freind who genuinely claims this credit but its pretty much as described he picks up the phone to confirm his situation is the same.

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by Kingofthedead4

In the last two years I have become less and less able to walk and do general tasks due to having inflammatory arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips, elbows and hands. I applied for DLA last year and was turned down, mostly down to a letter from a doctor who I have NEVER seen saying I could walk. Today at 11.30 I have my appeal, wish me luck.

Good luck.