For those of us unfit to work

[Kingofthedead4]

Originally Posted by Taf

A part week payment has just been made to my daughter... but I only sent in the first "sick note" yesterday and have not even finished filling in the claim form!

ESA dont wait for the sick note but would want the money back if it didn't arrive.

[Chrysalis]

To start with they need to get rid of Frued. He is an ex banker and knows how to make money, so what is he doing advising on welfare? his sole purpose must be to tell the government how to cut the welfare bill and thats it. Shows how wrong their current attitude is.

Now I have no problem with improving efficiency and such, but the well being of the claimants should be a high priority and at the same time there should be limitations in what financial help they get as it has to stay reasonable. But everything that is happening now with the sick is just very wrong, its not even close to been balanced. eg. doing medical reviews every 3 months, its as if they think people just have the flu or something and will get better over night.

I emailed both osborne and duncan smith about suggestions and ideas based on my experience (ex claimant and lots of charity work helping claimants) but I didnt even get the courtesy of a reply. Yet they happy to listen to the rich for 50k a meal.

The new ESA has an extra category 'limited capability to work' which is where the bulk of successful claimants are been put, less money and have to do work related activity. My problem is I think the DWP should help with them getting doable jobs but not force them. Basically there is a lot of people on IB/ESA who want to work, this goes against what the daily mail say but is true. So they should be helped and the ones who dont but have legally been declared unfit for work should be left alone, unless of course new evidence comes to light suggesting they fit for work. Its a very important point to make as well that if someone declared unfit for work is made to do work related activity and their health declines, they can sue the DWP. I expect within 5 years we will see this happen and after one person wins the floodgates will open. Dont make the mistake thinking no one will win, because claimants have a very high success rate on appeals and tribunals.

The assessment has been changed yet again this month, and in addition the expiry time for returning ESA50 forms has decreased so they still seem to be just making it harsher and harsher. The end game is probably to have next to no claimants as some people seem to think people of working age cannot get crippling chronic conditions.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

We have a major, major problem in the UK, there are people out there who cannot work, and fully deserve any benefit they can get, but there are people out there that milk the system.

The system is very frail, and l was once under a gp, l went to see for a leg problem, he examined me and stated what l had to do to get better, he then asked me how long l wanted off work and he would give a certificate for it.

He gave me a Cert for three months, I could use the leg etc, but that is how easy it was, nowadays, this problem is still going on.

I read an article a couple of months ago that a young man who had lost a leg, as he was SEEN kicking a ball, with his only leg. The benefit people stopped his benefit.

This is wrong.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

We have a major, major problem in the UK, there are people out there who cannot work, and fully deserve any benefit they can get, but there are people out there that milk the system.

The system is very frail, and l was once under a gp, l went to see for a leg problem, he examined me and stated what l had to do to get better, he then asked me how long l wanted off work and he would give a certificate for it.

He gave me a Cert for three months, I could use the leg etc, but that is how easy it was, nowadays, this problem is still going on.

I read an article a couple of months ago that a young man who had lost a leg, as he was SEEN kicking a ball, with his only leg. The benefit people stopped his benefit.
This is wrong.

I agree with you, except for the bit in bold. There was a firefighter who lost his leg from the knee down in a motorcycle accident.After a great deal of physio, and a false leg, he returned to work as a firefighter. So I doubt very much that he still claims DLA. So with the person who was kicking the ball, I presume they stopped his benefit because with his false leg, he was fully mobile again.

We really do need to know both sides of the story.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Agreed.

[Taf]

This could be the ESA slogan film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWr-...layer_embedded

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

We have a major, major problem in the UK, there are people out there who cannot work, and fully deserve any benefit they can get, but there are people out there that milk the system.

The system is very frail, and l was once under a gp, l went to see for a leg problem, he examined me and stated what l had to do to get better, he then asked me how long l wanted off work and he would give a certificate for it.

He gave me a Cert for three months, I could use the leg etc, but that is how easy it was, nowadays, this problem is still going on.

I read an article a couple of months ago that a young man who had lost a leg, as he was SEEN kicking a ball, with his only leg. The benefit people stopped his benefit.

This is wrong.

not that easy.

workplaces accept GP notes, but IB/ESA have their own doctors. GP notes will be enough to start off on benefit but it doesnt work for the duration.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

not that easy.

workplaces accept GP notes, but IB/ESA have their own doctors. GP notes will be enough to start off on benefit but it doesnt work for the duration.

GP sicknotes will "work for the duration" as long as the outcome of the Atos administered alogrithm and the ESA decision maker do not combine to score an individual below the threshold of the required 15 points.

At the appeal stage appellants are contesting the decision, not a perceived diagnosis of their medical condition. Hence there is no medical intervention beyond "reasoning" at the appeal stage.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

GP sicknotes will "work for the duration" as long as the outcome of the Atos administered alogrithm and the ESA decision maker do not combine to score an individual below the threshold of the required 15 points.

At the appeal stage appellants are contesting the decision, not a perceived diagnosis of their medical condition. Hence there is no medical intervention beyond "reasoning" at the appeal stage.

You contradicted yourself there, you basically said GP notes work but then said it requires the user to be assessed by atos as unfit for work. Sometimes an ESA DM can reward the points without an atos assessment but I have never seen that happen on GP evidence alone and without any previous atos medicals. Usually would need strong evidence from a consultant or higher and even then its rare. I have seen GP evidence be enough on renewals but not without at least 1 atos medical before hand.

At the appeal stage there should be a doctor present at the hearing to assess medical evidence. Since after all the claimant is contesting the medical assessment (points scored).

So a claimant can carry on sending GP notes however if atos disagree with the GP then the benefit will be withdrawn, after a certian point GP notes are not enough alone.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

You contradicted yourself there, you basically said GP notes work but then said it requires the user to be assessed by atos as unfit for work.

It's not a contradiction, it's a statement of fact. A GP note will "work for the duration" until a claimant falls foul of Atos & the decision makers combined determination.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

At the appeal stage there should be a doctor present at the hearing to assess medical evidence. Since after all the claimant is contesting the medical assessment (points scored).

Which is what I said.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

So a claimant can carry on sending GP notes however if atos disagree with the GP then the benefit will be withdrawn, after a certian point GP notes are not enough alone.

Again, this is what I said in relation to GP notes, see above.

Well i cannot speak for any other doctors surgery other then my own but getting a sicknote for longer then a week is no easy thing anymore and usually they are only given on the understanding you'll go for further tests and consultants appointments. We have allowed the likes of the daily hate and certain politicians to blow the whole welfare fraud thing out of all proportion to enable them to hit far larger groups who are genuine and not conning the system.

As it stands right now most of the public will go along with pretty much any welfare reform they hear about as long as the obligatory "combatting benefit fraud" rubbish is tacked on it somewhere. There is fraud i have never denied it hell i have seen it for myself and reported it for all the good that did and thats another thing. You can report people yet very little seems to happen to longterm persistent offenders almost as though someone somewhere doesn't really want to get rid of fraud as much as they say.

This whole massive benefit fraud is one of the biggest political snowjobs i have ever seen and it is being done very well with the aid of certain media outlets happy to perpetuate the myth that all the hard working taxpayers are being royally ripped off all the time by benefit claimants. This si not something that claimants can resolve it has to be done by society on a whole saying "enough is enough" no more hitting the most vulnerable in our society actually go after those doing far worse and having a far greater affect ie. tax evaders who cost this country more then benefit fraud ever could.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I didn't actually say it, have only commented on it once or at most twice as far as I can remember, and the ignore button is within your control panel if I bother you so much. Thx.

If it's your earning: then you did (recently). Basic and bonus. It's in the moans thread.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

We have a major, major problem in the UK, there are people out there who cannot work, and fully deserve any benefit they can get, but there are people out there that milk the system.

The system is very frail, and l was once under a gp, l went to see for a leg problem, he examined me and stated what l had to do to get better, he then asked me how long l wanted off work and he would give a certificate for it.

He gave me a Cert for three months, I could use the leg etc, but that is how easy it was, nowadays, this problem is still going on.

I read an article a couple of months ago that a young man who had lost a leg, as he was SEEN kicking a ball, with his only leg. The benefit people stopped his benefit.

This is wrong.

How did he stay standing up?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by danielf

If it's your earning: then you did (recently). Basic and bonus. It's in the moans thread.

Yeah I know, I was referring to this thread, quite aware of that one, apologised in advance but necessary to emphasise total exasperation and ridiculous state of affairs having to move due to housing costs. Wasn't a 'Considerably Richer Than You' post

[danielf]

Ah, Fair enough.

Anyway, get out of London. Problem solved...