NTL Not interested in long standing customers

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Perhaps you would care to name one large corporation which actually does care about long serving customers?

Just the one? ASDA, Carole Nash (not large corporation but a market leader) Direct Line, Kwik-Fit, Play.com, Firebox.com and, closer to telecomms home, Orange. You want more? I think ypou'll find many, many companies do care about long serving customers because it's cheaper to retain (and exploit commercial opportunities through cross marketing) than recruit custom.

If my point is still not getting across try comparing NTL's CS with other providers at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp I just selected five other providers against NTL and you'll never guess what, NTL came bottom for CS for every one of the past six months.

I guess this one's going to run and run but as has been pointed out, we seem to be going in circles.

Cheers all.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

So what reaction would you expect if you asked British Gas, BT, Powergen etc etc for the same a free month? Loyalty bonuses? You want cake and eat it too? No chance business is business take it or leave it.

I actually have had tesco points for paying my gas and electric bills by direct debit as a reward for moving the electric and gas over to one supplier. The Tesco points are added every 12 months if you don't move or pay late.

[Chrysalis]

well I actually have a genuine reason for a discount, the chances of me getting are near 0%. Kitty earlier in this thread stated we all get the same speeds and should pay the same price. Leicester is still in resegmentation stage and after my modem rebooted this morning my performance has gone back to 300ms pings to ubr and 750kbit speeds on 1.5mbit service, I have sent ignition a pm hoping he can fix for me a 2nd time because I know if I ring Tech Support they will blame it on my pc and tell me to get broadband medic. The situation is hard to judge however I personally feel any unhappy customer should be given a discount in some way but limited to how many times during the year they can get a discount unless of course their poor service remains unresolved. This should prevent abuse of the system.

[Toshni]

Having started the thread and read all the posts, I think maybe it is a good time to clarify a few points.

I have been a content customer of NTL for a number of years, only recently did I start to read and discover that if you approached NTL CS in the right manner then and only then they might do something to keep your custom.

When I did call them, I was polite and courteous and asked if it was possible to reduce my monthly bill as there are a number of other ISP's offering comparable if not better deals. I was able to quote these to NTL (so they didnt think I was just making it up and could check up if they wanted to). The response I got was surprising to say the least (see earleir thread).

I completely understand that a company has to make profits or it goes under. However when you enter a de-regulated market like telecomms you have to be able to continually drive down your own costs so that these can be passed onto the customer if there is a need to (and I stress the word IF).

My complaint was with the way I was handled by CS in being taken for granted. It is all very well courting new customers, but without a solid long term loyal customer base then your business starts to get shaky.

I expect monoplolistic companies to respond in the way I was responded to. To some extent this includes SKY, as Freeview is not a comparable service or competition and therefore they can charge what they like and you either lump it or go back to your basic 5 terrestrial channels.

So am I happy with the situation, no, but much like NTL have to make a profit I have bills to pay. This means nobody should pay top dollar for a service that they can get cheaper elsewhere just because they should'nt ask for discount.

I have negotiated discounts with my mortgage provider, credit card supplier, gas, electricity and house insurance. Why should my telecomms provider be any different?

[Chrysalis]

Toshni you not wrong, I run a webhosting company and they key is to keep all customer's happy, if I have to give him 1 or 2 free months and make a loss short term then so be it, I know in the long term I profit from it when he tells his friend's he likes his current provider and I get him long term, yes people will abuse get discount and leave but I think in overall in pay's to think of the customer first. NTL recently seem to have picked up the attitude of a monopolistic company recently which is why I questioned telewest and NTL not competing, it is a hassle changing from cable to a normal phone line system and NTL know this, people using cable basically have a choice between NTL and AOL unless they willing to go through that hassle.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Toshni

<Snip>

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

<Snip>

Thank you!

The point I have been trying to make for yonks....

Losing customers is madness from a business point of view, but ntl have clearly demonstrated that they don't have a clue in this situation, somehow allowing members of their staff to just let customers walk away with an arrogant "take it or leave it" manner just says to me that those staff care about ntl as much as they do ntl's customers.

ntl still have a long way to go to overcome this problem, & it's one that has plagued them for years (staff on the end of the phone who come across as not giving a hoot about the customer's issue one way or the other)

It has lost (& will continue to lose) ntl customers for years to come.

But clearly, at the rate ntl are signing up new customers, they must feel losing them so easily is acceptable if they don't make keeping existing customers (& keeping them happy) a their number 1 priority.

No customers=no business.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Neil

Thank you!

The point I have been trying to make for yonks....

Losing customers is madness from a business point of view, but ntl have clearly demonstrated that they don't have a clue in this situation, somehow allowing members of their staff to just let customers walk away with an arrogant "take it or leave it" manner just says to me that those staff care about ntl as much as they do ntl's customers.

And, if I remember my School economics lessons properly, it costs more to get new customers than to keep old, and for every disgruntled customer, you may have to recruit more than 1 to replace them (disgruntled customers will tell their friends/family what a crap service they recieved, then those friends and family may not join),

Actually, one thing that is starting to irritate me (this is strictly speaking but could apply to the general subject of the thread). Mobile phone companies are busy chasing new pre-pay customers, but totally ignoring the old, contract customers (like me). It would be nice to have a line-rental reduction now that I have probably paid off their subsidising the cost of my P800.

Mind you, when I moved from O2, they really didn't seem interested in my business.

[zovat]

Just for comparison (and to show this is not just an NTL problem).

I have just called Vodafone, and asked about upgrading my phone, and changing tariff.
I was told I would have to pay to upgrade my phone to a V550, and the best tariff they could offer to fit my needs was £22 a month.
I went to their web site and found the same phone, with a free bluetooth headset, on the equivalent tarrif for free, and £18 per month.
When I pointed this out, I was told that the upgrades department don't deal with accessories, and when I probed further I was asked if I wished to speak the their retention people - which I did.

The best they could offer was £50 for the phone, no accessories (we dont deal with accessories) and a discounted £15 per month for the line rental for 6 months. (not including the free weekend calls currently available).

When I pointed out that this would cost me more that the deal they were offering for new customers, I was politely told that this was true, and that this is because I have a spend history with them, and the discounts are based on this. A new customer has no spend history, and is therefore given the highest discount available.
The person I spoke to was polite, but basically summarised my options as "like it or lump it". I chose to lump it, and have ordered a new phone, on a new contract, for free, with the bluetooth headset for free, and the free weekend calls, all from their own website - the only difference is that I will have a new mobile number (their deal was better than O2 or Orange, otherwise I would have moved and kept the number ).

This just shows (and the guy I spoke to at Vodafone agreed) that new customers are treated better than existing ones by a large number (I would say the majority) of the large corporates.

It does seem that this is an attitude of - we get our money out of you in the first 12 months - anything after that is a bonus.

[Ignition]

Not as polite as could have been, but that site is a most irritating one. A site devoted to people trying to avoid paying the same price everyone else does for things, quite pathetic actually.

Having read your comments from there Toshni

Thanks mate, just posted a new thread on there, so will sit back and see if anybody comes up with a different strategy.

Seems your plan in posting here was for someone else to offer you a way to get the services cheaper.

I'm really quite astonished that a thread is running devoted to people getting ntl broadband on the cheap, haggling etc.

Just as well I'm not in charge of these things, I'd end up saying (politely) 'This is the price you agreed to pay, this is the price you signed up for, this is the price everyone else pays. Either pay it or go somewhere else'.

Makes you wonder how much profit is actually being made on the services if 'retentions' people have this much discounting power. If retentions can discount everything till it's breakeven or lower I don't really see the point in it being offered. Realistically if with a discount a customer is no longer going to be making money what exactly is the point in having them?

Personally I think discounting until customers aren't profitable anymore is a ridiculous exercise and a poor way for a company to operate (apologies to anyone in retentions but if you're doing this I think you're wrong and wasting your time, if the company wanted to be a charity prices would be stupidly low to begin with).

EDIT: Forgot to put the flame proof suit on.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Not as polite as could have been, but that site is a most irritating one. A site devoted to people trying to avoid paying the same price everyone else does for things, quite pathetic actually.

Having read your comments from there Toshni

Seems your plan in posting here was for someone else to offer you a way to get the services cheaper.

I'm really quite astonished that a thread is running devoted to people getting ntl broadband on the cheap, haggling etc.

Just as well I'm not in charge of these things, I'd end up saying (politely) 'This is the price you agreed to pay, this is the price you signed up for, this is the price everyone else pays. Either pay it or go somewhere else'.

Makes you wonder how much profit is actually being made on the services if 'retentions' people have this much discounting power. If retentions can discount everything till it's breakeven or lower I don't really see the point in it being offered. Realistically if with a discount a customer is no longer going to be making money what exactly is the point in having them?

Personally I think discounting until customers aren't profitable anymore is a ridiculous exercise and a poor way for a company to operate (apologies to anyone in retentions but if you're doing this I think you're wrong and wasting your time, if the company wanted to be a charity prices would be stupidly low to begin with).

[Toshni]

The fact that I posted from another site asking for a different strategy in no way changes the point. As I have already said, I (and many others here) do not think it is unreasonble in a competive industry to ask for a discount.
If (as has been proved on the other forum) discounts are available for long standing customers, why should'nt different approach strageties be used to try and ellicit them?

The point above about discounts assumes that NTL are just barely covering their overheads which is why they cannot discount. This is a bit naive (I am an Engineering Manager in a manufacturing company and understand all to well the relationship between, cost, selling price, and the price the market is prepared to pay) as they would have gone out of business a long time ago on that premise.

We could all argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is if you think you pay to much, based on the price of the competition, then ask for a discount (in maybe more than one way) if you can't then leave and get a better deal elsewhere.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Toshni

We could all argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is if you think you pay to much, based on the price of the competition, then ask for a discount (in maybe more than one way) if you can't then leave and get a better deal elsewhere.

We agree very much on that one That's why I've changed ADSL supplier 3 times in less than a year, and none could touch the deal I have now Also use Tele2 for calls, phone bills for most basic BT line rental available and less than a fiver a month in calls suit me fine.

I do however have the full Sky package and pay full price, for now!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Just as well I'm not in charge of these things, I'd end up saying (politely) 'This is the price you agreed to pay, this is the price you signed up for, this is the price everyone else pays. Either pay it or go somewhere else'.

Makes you wonder how much profit is actually being made on the services if 'retentions' people have this much discounting power. If retentions can discount everything till it's breakeven or lower I don't really see the point in it being offered. Realistically if with a discount a customer is no longer going to be making money what exactly is the point in having them?

Well I agree with you on that, I remember when as a network engineer I would go along to a customers house who was basically complaining about nothing to get a discount/free service period.

I dealt with many genuine cases, but I also dealt witha number that were plain and simply just trying to get something for nothing. CS were eventually stopped from this practice because they were giving far too much away, they gave free service to one guy down in Barry just because he was involved in Oftel.

The one case that I have mentioned before that really made me laugh, was a customer who had been given a free service period that had come to an end. I was asked if I would go and see the customer, he was saying the ntl TV service was giving him epeleptic fits! I could find nothing wrong with it, but the guy was shouting and saying if he watched it for long enough he would get a fit!

The guy was very unhappy with me and I reported back to CS that as far as I was concerned he should not be given any more free service. I was then told by another service technician that ntl CS had given him everything, movies, sports etc free for an indefinate period. I kicked up a fuss and we asked CS if the guy was not getting fits from the service now it was for free.

He claimed it was unwatchable, but he was happy to have it for free

CS always over ruled us and believed the customer, they later increased numbers and efforts in retentions. Customers got to know what they could get away with as word got around, free service became very popular such as free analogue until digital was launched. Some customers were given 12 months free analogue full packages because they said they would go to Sky digital!

This will probably be denied by some in ntl, but I know it for a fact!

[scrotnig]

My view is that there is no harm WHATSOEVER in asking any supllier of any service for a discount.

What I disagree with is that people throw strops and slag the company off if they get told no.

NTL are perfectly within their rights to say 'sorry, no way', that does NOT make them a poor company, nor would it make any other company a poor company.

Orange recently threw me a hefty discount even though I didn't ask for one and didn't threaten to leave. If they had done this to reward loyalty that would be fine, but that isn't the case, I asked them a couple of questions and they panicked and bribed me. I'd NEVER have left Orange because I am 100% satisfied with their service, so why are they throwing money at me that I never even asked for?

I'm not complaining, but it isn't a professional way to do things.

Originally Posted by Toshni

The fact that I posted from another site asking for a different strategy in no way changes the point. As I have already said, I (and many others here) do not think it is unreasonble in a competive industry to ask for a discount.
If (as has been proved on the other forum) discounts are available for long standing customers, why should'nt different approach strageties be used to try and ellicit them?

The point above about discounts assumes that NTL are just barely covering their overheads which is why they cannot discount. This is a bit naive (I am an Engineering Manager in a manufacturing company and understand all to well the relationship between, cost, selling price, and the price the market is prepared to pay) as they would have gone out of business a long time ago on that premise.

We could all argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is if you think you pay to much, based on the price of the competition, then ask for a discount (in maybe more than one way) if you can't then leave and get a better deal elsewhere.

I think the concept of'discounting' perhaps confuses the debate. What I want is not the cheapest product but the best value product. The proposition offered by a provider should not be determined by price to the exclusion of other factors such as reliability and service. Whilst there will always be those who will buy on price and chop and change on the marketing whims of competitors (just look at the credit card industry), companies that engender loyalty by delivering superior service will retain custom and enhance their profitability. I suspect some of, but not all, those who are unhappy at NTL's strategies for attracting new custom are upset precisely because the company has failed to deliver the constency of service that would earn their loyalty. That's why they want a 'discount'.