Riots

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Nonsense. The parent may not have committed the actual crime, but if they have delinquent offspring they are most certainly at least a part of the problem.

The fact that so many parents don't seem to know, care or control what their children are up to in the late evening and early hours tends to make me think they're a very big part of the problem. But then, in a country where you get rights without responsibilities, it's probably a bit much to expect people to exercise responsibility when it comes to having/bringing up children.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by the_neurotic_cat

Any actions taken to increase the poverty of those involved will encourage further crime.

Impoverishing those simply associated with those involved in the rioting is even more destructive, especially if it's done to the point of destitution.

Excellent. Throw money at a problem, that will work well.

Originally Posted by Damien

I fail to see how making someone homeless helps, especially when it includes other people in the family.

It promotes responsibility. If you know you, or a member of your family is committing criminal acts and as a result you will be forced to leave the area and your friends it would focus you on not committing crime.

The estate I worked on for a number of years did this for drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennents a few years back and it worked wonders.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I would love to be a solicitor, as l would jump at the chance to defend any parent who gets evicted due to the children being found guilty of the the riots.

What about the parent who walked the youngster to court by force - will she be evicted ?

Originally Posted by Gary L

She/they won't be evicted. I can guarantee it.

It's happened before and it'll happen again. If this happens to a number of the rioters I can see this becoming more commonplace for other times.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwc...TenantsEvicted

Two antisocial tenants are being evicted as part of Renfrewshire Council's continuing campaign to drive out drug dealers and bad neighbours.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Derek

It's happened before and it'll happen again. If this happens to a number of the rioters I can see this becoming more commonplace for other times.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwc...TenantsEvicted

To be fair Derek. that's been happening all the time for the likes of drug dealers and such. and I agree with it because it affects the legal tenant themselves. either by being the said person or knowingly allowing the activities to be performed.

this is about a family that's at risk from their son doing something that's embarrassed the government and peed off the residents (I don't know how many miles away from the family home)

I think there's actually more to this particular case other than just the 'riot' from what I've read she's in rent arrears of over £1800. so I'd say she's probably already under a suspended order anyway.

Originally Posted by Derek

Excellent. Throw money at a problem, that will work well.

That's what we need to avoid,the last gov threw billions into inner city re developement so as i have said previously the basic building blocks should be there .

It promotes responsibility. If you know you, or a member of your family is committing criminal acts and as a result you will be forced to leave the area and your friends it would focus you on not committing crime.

The estate I worked on for a number of years did this for drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennents a few years back and it worked wonders.

Agreed and it should always be an option for LA's .My concern is using this option as a first resort instead of a last resort .I am wondering if the family mentioned in this thread are being evicted because the government told them to do it or because they have past history with crime and disorder .

It's happened before and it'll happen again. If this happens to a number of the rioters I can see this becoming more commonplace for other times.

It's happened a lot on my estate ,a god send for peaceable tenants on the estate they are being evicted from but a pain in jacksy for the area they are being moved to .It will never be a cure for the problem of unruly tenants just a short term respite for decent tenants and to be used for political ends is wrong imo

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Derek

Excellent. Throw money at a problem, that will work well.

Whatever the causes of this, it seems to me that we've got a problem. Either the levels of deprivation that we've allowed to develop/exist, or a serious attitude problem in our youngsters. Whichever it is, there will be a price tag to the solution.

The estate I worked on for a number of years did this for drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennents a few years back and it worked wonders.

Drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennants. I have no problem with people who consistently cause problems in their neighbourhood being thrown out of their house. What appears to be the case here, is that people may get evicted for one offence, which may actually be their first one (for which they got caught). Also, to the extent that there may be parents that also get evicted, they may not have had much opportunity to correct their children's behaviour where this was a first offence.

It's happened before and it'll happen again. If this happens to a number of the rioters I can see this becoming more commonplace for other times.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwc...TenantsEvicted

Yes. Incessant behaviour, and breach of an ASBO that was handed out earlier. Plenty notice and opportunity for the people involved to change their ways. Which is not the case for what appears to be the plan with the rioters.

As I've said before: I think a jail term is appropriate for those involved in the rioting/looting. I also think there's a case for those convicted who live in council housing to be given notice that they are sailing close to the wind and risk being evicted should similar events occur in the future. What I don't think is appropriate is for councils to attempt to evict (basically) anyone that took part.

I have absolutely no problem with offenders being dealt with through the courts. What I do have a problem with is that people/politicians appear to be looking to score cheap points by being additionally tough on those they can be tough with. We have the courts to deal with offenders. Housing authorities are not there to deal out additional sentencing when public opinion feels it fit.

[Gary L]

I hear Dave and his men have declared war on youths and people on benefits.
something about losing benefits for the rioting even if you don't get a prison sentence. and any future claimants that commit a crime having their money affected.

hold on tight people. it's going to be mayhem on the streets soon.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I hear Dave and his men have declared war on youths and people on benefits.something about losing benefits for the rioting even if you don't get a prison sentence. and any future claimants that commit a crime having their money affected.

hold on tight people. it's going to be mayhem on the streets soon.

Surely they've 'declared war' (and I have serious doubt about whether anything will actually change BTW) on youths and people on benefits etc. who riot, loot, set fire to stuff. That's a bit different really and I reckon there are plenty of decent youths and people on benefits who despise what the low life rioters have done and won't shed many tears if indeed life is made tougher for them.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I hear Dave and his men have declared war on youths and people on benefits.
something about losing benefits for the rioting even if you don't get a prison sentence. and any future claimants that commit a crime having their money affected.

hold on tight people. it's going to be mayhem on the streets soon.

So what about the **** that have declared war on decent hard working people then.

[Gary L]

I think Dave is just a bit annoyed with how this has only happened whilst he was running the country. I think it's a big embarrassment for him. and he wants to make dead sure that the world don't get the chance to laught at him again.

what he needs to do though is promise that a parent won't get arrested for doing what he blames them for. and that's not taking control and responsibility of their kids.

that's where it all went wrong. parents gave up through fear of arrest. that's why it got to this stage. society exploded in our faces.

go on, tell me that mass evictions and stopping of benefits is going to make this country a nice and safe place to live.
tell me that you will be sending your CV in when the government is recruiting for our very own Judge Dredd

I would like to know what cameron is going to do that all the politicians over the last 40yrs didn't try. Stopping benefits will only affect those on benefits .Eviction will only affect those in council accomodation.He's bringing absent fathers into the equation which is absolute baloney .He seems to have the idea that disrespectful and out of control children only live on council estates

[Arthurgray50@blu]

My personnel feeling is that council who try this, will be in a tricky position.

I have been in council accommodation for the past 40 years, IF you are a sitting tenant, you cannot be evicted UNLESS, you are in arrears with rent, cause anti social behaviour on the estate where you live. Or harass your neighbours.

Council have to tread carefully on this, as you cannot tar the parent with the same brush as the child. If you did that, then every tenant in the UK would be evicted for something.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

My personnel feeling is that council who try this, will be in a tricky position.

Not when they have Daves approval and the backing of the not thinking straight public.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

My personnel feeling is that council who try this, will be in a tricky position.

I have been in council accommodation for the past 40 years, IF you are a sitting tenant, you cannot be evicted UNLESS, you are in arrears with rent, cause anti social behaviour on the estate where you live. Or harass your neighbours.

Council have to tread carefully on this, as you cannot tar the parent with the same brush as the child. If you did that, then every tenant in the UK would be evicted for something.

That is a load of rubbish Arthur .

A )you are not a sitting tenant .A sitting tenant is someone who is living in a house when the owner is selling it ,i think you mean a secure tennant

B) you need to take a close look at your tenancy agreement ,the council can and will evict families if they commit crimes or a person in the household is committing crimes ,I have given you the relavent section of my agreement which will be the same as yours you should read it

c) parents are responsible for their children and the person who's name is on the rent card is wholly responsible for people or family members living in the house .Eviction doesn't usually happen for one off minor offences it usually happens after a number of incidents and complaints .I have known people convicted of drug offences lose their house immediately though

Moral collapse? A very small percentage of the population loots,riots and arsons but 99% of the rest of the country behaves pretty morally but we are facing a moral collapse.

I'm sick of hyperbole..Especially from politicians.As the saying goes those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..How many politicians were caught with their hands in the expenses cookie jar and how many are still trying it on?Before talking of moral collapse they need to lead by example..

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Moral collapse? A very small percentage of the population loots,riots and arsons but 99% of the rest of the country behaves pretty morally but we are facing a moral collapse.

I'm sick of hyperbole..Especially from politicians.As the saying goes those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..How many politicians were caught with their hands in the expenses cookie jar and how many are still trying it on?Before talking of moral collapse they need to lead by example..

And if we expect politicians to lead by example l am afraid we will be waiting a very long time and yes most people are very good people but of course this never gets mentioned in our headline grabbing press.