Riots

[danielf]

Someone stop the press. An eminently sensible post by Gary! (has his account been hacked?)

Update from HM Gov:

Prisoners convicted of a criminal offence and detained in prison are not entitled to social security benefits. That means that anyone who is eligible for social security benefits and who is caught, convicted and imprisoned for any offence committed during the recent disorder that has disrupted London and other UK cities will be disqualified from receiving social security payments.

Updated on the e-Petition site.


Suppose that's a start.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by danielf

Someone stop the press. An eminently sensible post by Gary! (has his account been hacked?)

I'm as shocked as what you are for what he's wrote while I was on the bog

Originally Posted by Gary L

All this is ok for the criminality side of it all, but what about the long term problem. is the government going to 'help' or are we just going to regard all youths as criminals now?

I think the government has had a bit of a shock to be honest .They will have to realise that just throwing these people in jail will not cure the underlying problems ,yes ,punishment for crimes committed is important and necessary but tackling the reasons why people do these things is just as important if not more

such as they're bombarded with adverts and such for this and that which they'll never be able to afford.
they feel like nobody listens or cares about them and their future.
There were jobs promised for those in the area of the olympics which was 'a lie'

acepting that you need to work to buy nice things like expensive phones tellys and x box's is part of how you are raised not a thing the government should be made responsible for

I actually agreed with some of the points being made by the black gang youth worker. and the point made about there wereonly 4 channels when someone grew up. he wasn't bombarded with you can have this and that if youhad money.
the only thing I saw growing up that was wealth was a car and a house.

as above ,they need educating to realise that stealing is not the way to get nice gets things

what does everyone think about the example where stealing water worth £3 and getting I think 6 or 9 months prison. and an MP stealing £8,000 and saying sorry?
and the bankers losing the country millions and being paid bonuses for it?

the sentence is a bit ott when you compare it to muggers and burglars,but the authorities are using them as a example and rightly so imo .The problem is though that young people getting harsh sentencing will see the soft punishment dished out to mp's caught fiddling and defrauding as "one rule for them and one rule for us" so that needs adressing as part of the cure

is this it now. are we going to clamp down hard on the youth of today, or are we going to do something to help them?
if the answer comes down to just go out and get a job, then I don't think we're going to get anywhere really.

Hopefully not ,clamp down certainly when crimes are commited ,by all sections of society not just the disadvantaged ,but we do need to give them a way out of poverty and a life on the dole ,but they need to help themselves as well they cannot just rely on the government to keep giving them free money .
The government have a duty to create the circumstances where jobs and a better lifestyle will be created the youth have to want to take those chances offered and better themselves .

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Someone stop the press. An eminently sensible post by Gary! (has his account been hacked?)

I know ,i was surprised and impressed

gold star to Gary

[nomadking]

How many of those that initiated the rioting(as opposed to those that simply joined in) are actually employable in the first place? You have to get rid of the notion that having something is a divine right, rather than something that is to be worked for.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How many of those that initiated the rioting(as opposed to those that simply joined in) are actually employable in the first place? You have to get rid of the notion that having something is a divine right, rather than something that is to be worked for.

And a lot of these people think they have a divine right to everything but l was always brought up to respect people,think of others, work hard and enjoy life when you have the time.

[TheDaddy]

By far the best article I have read on the riots yet

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and the entire British political class came together yesterday to denounce the rioters. They were of course right to say that the actions of these looters, arsonists and muggers were abhorrent and criminal, and that the police should be given more support. But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.


Yesterday, the veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman asked the Prime Minister to consider how these rioters can be “reclaimed” by society. Yes, this is indeed the same Gerald Kaufman who submitted a claim for three months’ expenses totalling £14,301.60, which included £8,865 for a Bang & Olufsen television.

Or take the Salford MP Hazel Blears, who has been loudly calling for draconian action against the looters. I find it very hard to make any kind of ethical distinction between Blears’s expense cheating and tax avoidance, and the straight robbery carried out by the looters.

The Prime Minister showed no sign that he understood that something stank about yesterday’s Commons debate. He spoke of morality, but only as something which applies to the very poor: “We will restore a stronger sense of morality and responsibility – in every town, in every street and in every estate.” He appeared not to grasp that this should apply to the rich and powerful as well.

The tragic truth is that Mr Cameron is himself guilty of failing this test. It is scarcely six weeks since he jauntily turned up at the News International summer party, even though the media group was at the time subject to not one but two police investigations. Even more notoriously, he awarded a senior Downing Street job to the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, even though he knew at the time that Coulson had resigned after criminal acts were committed under his editorship. The Prime Minister excused his wretched judgment by proclaiming that “everybody deserves a second chance”. It was very telling yesterday that he did not talk of second chances as he pledged exemplary punishment for the rioters and looters.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...as-the-bottom/

[denphone]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The by far the best article I have read on the riots yet

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and the entire British political class came together yesterday to denounce the rioters. They were of course right to say that the actions of these looters, arsonists and muggers were abhorrent and criminal, and that the police should be given more support.
But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.


Yesterday, the veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman asked the Prime Minister to consider how these rioters can be “reclaimed” by society. Yes, this is indeed the same Gerald Kaufman who submitted a claim for three months’ expenses totalling £14,301.60, which included £8,865 for a Bang & Olufsen television.

Or take the Salford MP Hazel Blears, who has been loudly calling for draconian action against the looters. I find it very hard to make any kind of ethical distinction between Blears’s expense cheating and tax avoidance, and the straight robbery carried out by the looters.

The Prime Minister showed no sign that he understood that something stank about yesterday’s Commons debate. He spoke of morality, but only as something which applies to the very poor: “We will restore a stronger sense of morality and responsibility – in every town, in every street and in every estate.” He appeared not to grasp that this should apply to the rich and powerful as well.

The tragic truth is that Mr Cameron is himself guilty of failing this test. It is scarcely six weeks since he jauntily turned up at the News International summer party, even though the media group was at the time subject to not one but two police investigations. Even more notoriously, he awarded a senior Downing Street job to the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, even though he knew at the time that Coulson had resigned after criminal acts were committed under his editorship. The Prime Minister excused his wretched judgment by proclaiming that “everybody deserves a second chance”. It was very telling yesterday that he did not talk of second chances as he pledged exemplary punishment for the rioters and looters.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...as-the-bottom/

l agree totally with what you are saying because if people at the top set a good example then they are good role models for others to copy be the role models politician's, sportsman, pop singers or any other profession.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

By far the best article I have read on the riots yet

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and the entire British political class came together yesterday to denounce the rioters. They were of course right to say that the actions of these looters, arsonists and muggers were abhorrent and criminal, and that the police should be given more support. But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.


Yesterday, the veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman asked the Prime Minister to consider how these rioters can be “reclaimed� by society. Yes, this is indeed the same Gerald Kaufman who submitted a claim for three months’ expenses totalling £14,301.60, which included £8,865 for a Bang & Olufsen television.

Or take the Salford MP Hazel Blears, who has been loudly calling for draconian action against the looters. I find it very hard to make any kind of ethical distinction between Blears’s expense cheating and tax avoidance, and the straight robbery carried out by the looters.

The Prime Minister showed no sign that he understood that something stank about yesterday’s Commons debate. He spoke of morality, but only as something which applies to the very poor: “We will restore a stronger sense of morality and responsibility – in every town, in every street and in every estate.� He appeared not to grasp that this should apply to the rich and powerful as well.

The tragic truth is that Mr Cameron is himself guilty of failing this test. It is scarcely six weeks since he jauntily turned up at the News International summer party, even though the media group was at the time subject to not one but two police investigations. Even more notoriously, he awarded a senior Downing Street job to the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, even though he knew at the time that Coulson had resigned after criminal acts were committed under his editorship. The Prime Minister excused his wretched judgment by proclaiming that “everybody deserves a second chance�. It was very telling yesterday that he did not talk of second chances as he pledged exemplary punishment for the rioters and looters.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...as-the-bottom/

yes an excellant article,if the government are going to bring back morals and discipline (and i agree they should)then their own house needs setting in order first the younger generation are very quick at picking up hypocrisy

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by martyh

yes an excellant article,if the government are going to bring back morals and discipline (and i agree they should)then their own house needs setting in order first the younger generation are very quick at picking up hypocrisy

The sort of people that started the rioting were those kind of people long before anything like that happened or came to light.

Originally Posted by nomadking

The sort of people that started the rioting were those kind of people long before anything like that happened or came to light.

politicians have been fiddling and abusing the system for their own gain long before the riots happened

they are as bad as each other .The point being is what right do the government ministers who have been fiddling expenses and flipping houses have to preach morality to anybody

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I was watching ITV news this evening, And would you believe it, the coalition are still going ahead with further police cuts.

During the riots, the police were so short of staff, they were using officers from Kent, Surrey.

And why is he going to the USA to get advice on riots in USA, not being funny gangs in the USA are much worse than in England and police officers carry guns to protect themself, what do PCs have in this country, a baton, cs spray and cuffs,

Cameron can get help and advice in this country on riots, he doesn't need Americaan crappy advice.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

And why is he going to the USA to get advice on riots in USA, not being funny gangs in the USA are much worse than in England and police officers carry guns to protect themself, what do PCs have in this country, a baton, cs spray and cuffs,

Cameron can get help and advice in this country on riots, he doesn't need Americaan crappy advice.

nothing wrong in seeking outside help Arthur especially if the help has more experience and Bill Bratton has plenty of that

[danielf]

Aww, bless... Asyraf Haziq is the guy who got mugged during the riots. You know, that video that was posted 5 or more time. He's a Malayasian student who's been in the UK for one month. He was cycling along with a mate, when he encountered a group of youths. One of them punched him, breaking his jaw, then they stole his bike, and we've all seen what happens afterwards.

Originally Posted by Metro

Malaysian national Haziq, who is on an accounting course, has said he 'feels sorry' for his attackers and wants to continue his studies in London, despite his family asking him to come home.

'I was really sad for [my attackers] because amongst them there were children,' he said.

'There was a boy from a primary school, I think. It was shocking because I expected it to be someone older, but there was this boy.'

He continued: 'My family are worried about me, and my mother would like me to go home, but I am determined to stay.

'Britain is great. Before I came here, I was very eager and I haven't got any ill-feeling about what happened'.

'It is really strange. I am just a normal person. These things happened so suddenly.'

Also: Brits at their best.

More than £22k raised to do 'something nice for ashraf'

I'm sure that'll be sufficient to get his parents over.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Cameron can get help and advice in this country on riots, he doesn't need Americaan crappy advice.

"American crappy advice"? Blatant racism aside, this guy has apparently reduced crime in some of the toughest cities in the world. Also, a lot of the UK gangs do model themselves on the US gangs, so isn't it a good thing that someone who has experience of dealing with gangs is advising the government?