Riots

Originally Posted by danielf

Actually, my last comment was about evicting rioters from their houses wich is equally pointless as stopping their benefits.

I agree ,we have tried moving the problem in the past and it doesn't work My estate is one that that was ostly pulled down and the tenants moved to others in a bid to stop the problem of gangs ,all that achieved was the gangs in a different area .At the end of the day they have to live somewhere .

If we have to spend a shed load of money (again) on inner city areas then so be it but i suspect that it isn't a simple as throwing money into these areas and hoping the problems go away as labour did (and i'm not scoring political points it's a fact).
We need to start in the home and address why some parents are lacking the skills to bring up their children with respect and morals .We have i fear lost a generation to crime and a life out of work because we as a society allowed it ,we failed to spot the signs early enough and now have at least one generation of children and young adults with substandard education ,next to no morals and no respect for law and order.
I am not going to pretend i have any of the answers but i suspect the reasons behind these events are many and varied and will not be a quick fix but whatever we do we have to have a government with some different thinking (lets hope the present government are up to it) .We have tried throwing billions at the problem it hasn't worked so a different aproach is needed one that will educate the children properly ,give them a stake in society ,give them an alternative to living on the dole and being forgotten about and above all we need to resist the temptation to give up on the younger generations ,we need them as much as they need us .
It is a failing of the older generations that we have these problems and we need to realise that

---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't see the problem here. The IPCC Press Office seems to have been passing on information, when asked, in good faith. It did not proactively issue information until it was reasonably sure of the facts. Certainly, no reference to Duggan firing first appeared in any press release put out by the IPCC.

If journalists will insist on off-the-cuff briefings to feed their 24-hour operations, they are going to have to expect information released while an enquiry is barely begun to be preliminary and unreliable.

And yet, all the main media outlets are suddenly throwing the word "misled" around as if giving duff information to pushy hacks was some sort of a criminal offence.

The British media, the Press media in particular, is sitting in its very own glass house at the moment, and it had better think twice before throwing rocks at the IPCC or anyone else.

isn't being "misled" akin to jumping to conlusions in media speak

They seem to be trying to give it the same weight as it would have if a minister "misled" Parliament, which would be a resignation issue.

[denphone]

Its seem the public support the police strongly after the riots but have less faith in our politicians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...ic-back-police

[joglynne]

London Police Arrest Man Over Riot Death

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ting-dies.html

[denphone]

Originally Posted by joglynne

London Police Arrest Man Over Riot Death

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ting-dies.html

And if he is guilty they should throw away the key.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't see the problem here. The IPCC Press Office seems to have been passing on information, when asked, in good faith. It did not proactively issue information until it was reasonably sure of the facts. Certainly, no reference to Duggan firing first appeared in any press release put out by the IPCC.

If journalists will insist on off-the-cuff briefings to feed their 24-hour operations, they are going to have to expect information released while an enquiry is barely begun to be preliminary and unreliable.

And yet, all the main media outlets are suddenly throwing the word "misled" around as if giving duff information to pushy hacks was some sort of a criminal offence.

The British media, the Press media in particular, is sitting in its very own glass house at the moment, and it had better think twice before throwing rocks at the IPCC or anyone else.

My post was deliberately sarcastic. I was trying to make the point, perhaps not very well, that sometimes mistakes are made, genuine mistakes. Sometimes these can have serious consequences, sometimes not but, given the intolerable pressure they work under, I think it'd be nice if the police were cut a little more slack when they get things wrong.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 20:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

R.I.P Richard Mannington Bowes.

It was mentioned this in a debate and I cannot remember where I watched this now but they were talking about how some of these rioters are turning up at court, dressed in the full blown chav gear, tracksuits and the like. Kinda shows the lack of respect for authority, when criminals show up in normal every day wears.

Yes RIP to him and the three guys mown down by that car. People doing what we're always told we should be doing - being good citizens. I hope plaques will be erected to honour their memory and sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes RIP to him and the three guys mown down by that car. People doing what we're always told we should be doing - being good citizens. I hope plaques will be erected to honour their memory and sacrifice.

agreed and they should put it in a really prominent place so the rioters will have to walk past it all the time because it will make some of them think about actions and consequences

[Osem]

Originally Posted by denphone

And if he is guilty they should throw away the key.

Seconded!

[Gary L]

Did anyone watch the riots debate on BBC3?
It was really good I thought. apart from Kate Walsh being on there.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

I agree ,we have tried moving the problem in the past and it doesn't work My estate is one that that was ostly pulled down and the tenants moved to others in a bid to stop the problem of gangs ,all that achieved was the gangs in a different area .At the end of the day they have to live somewhere .

If we have to spend a shed load of money (again) on inner city areas then so be it but i suspect that it isn't a simple as throwing money into these areas and hoping the problems go away as labour did (and i'm not scoring political points it's a fact).
We need to start in the home and address why some parents are lacking the skills to bring up their children with respect and morals .We have i fear lost a generation to crime and a life out of work because we as a society allowed it ,we failed to spot the signs early enough and now have at least one generation of children and young adults with substandard education ,next to no morals and no respect for law and order.
I am not going to pretend i have any of the answers but i suspect the reasons behind these events are many and varied and will not be a quick fix but whatever we do we have to have a government with some different thinking (lets hope the present government are up to it) .We have tried throwing billions at the problem it hasn't worked so a different aproach is needed one that will educate the children properly ,give them a stake in society ,give them an alternative to living on the dole and being forgotten about and above all we need to resist the temptation to give up on the younger generations ,we need them as much as they need us .
It is a failing of the older generations that we have these problems and we need to realise that

That's the one.

Wonder if this will have an impact on the Mayoral Elections next year. Ken Livingston might retake the position of mayor just prior to the Olympics...

has this man got the right idea ? are we at the stage where American style policing is needed ?

Young thugs and gang members should be made to “fear” the police and the prospect of serious punishment for acts such as looting, says David Cameron’s new crime adviser.
In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Bill Bratton, the former New York police chief, said many young people, especially gang members, had been “emboldened” by over-cautious policing tactics and lenient sentencing policies.

Losing public confidence in its ability to provide security — through force if necessary — created “incredible difficulty” for a police force, he said.

To be effective, a police force should have “a lot of arrows in the quiver,” said Mr Bratton, advocating a doctrine of “escalating force” where weapons including rubber bullets, Tasers, pepper spray and water cannon were all available to commanders.

Originally Posted by martyh

has this man got the right idea ? are we at the stage where American style policing is needed ?

Amazing how different media report things from the same person, isn't it?

The Torygraph reports the "fear the police" and "serious punishment" parts, whilst the BBC gives both sides of his statement.

From the BBC

Mr Bratton, who also previously headed Los Angeles police, told US broadcaster ABC that while arrest was appropriate for the most violent, the issue was one for society as a whole.

"You can't arrest your way out of the problem," he said.

"Arrest is certainly appropriate for the most violent, the incorrigible, but so much of it can be addressed in other ways and it's not just a police issue, it is in fact a societal issue.

"It's not easy, it's hard work, but it can be done and in many respects you have to argue that it must be done because you just can't continue the way you've been going...

..."Our success in Los Angeles in reducing gang violence significantly was a co-ordination of very assertive tough police tactics but also a lot of community outreach, a lot of creative, innovative programmes such as a significant use of gang interventionists."

I agree with the points he has made in both interviews.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Amazing how different media report things from the same person, isn't it?

The Torygraph reports the "fear the police" and "serious punishment" parts, whilst the BBC gives both sides of his statement.

From the BBC I agree with the points he has made in both interviews.

yes he seems to be talking a lot of sense and cameron would do well to take on board some of his ideas .This is what i touched on in my previous post about trying new ideas and different thinking instead of trying to buy our way out of a problem .Sure some money will be needed but surely after the billions that have been thrown at inner city regeneration projects the basic building blocks are there ,using the recourses that are inplace correctly and efficiently is more important than finding new money and involving the communities more instead of faceless suits making decisions about where money is to be spent .Inner city regeneration isn't just about new housing or building retail parks ,yes they are important but so are youth clubs and sports centers

[Gary L]

All this is ok for the criminality side of it all, but what about the long term problem. is the government going to 'help' or are we just going to regard all youths as criminals now?

What does everyone think about the points made on the debate last night?

such as they're bombarded with adverts and such for this and that which they'll never be able to afford.
they feel like nobody listens or cares about them and their future.
There were jobs promised for those in the area of the olympics which was 'a lie'

I actually agreed with some of the points being made by the black gang youth worker. and the point made about there were only 4 channels when someone grew up. he wasn't bombarded with you can have this and that if you had money.
the only thing I saw growing up that was wealth was a car and a house.

what does everyone think about the example where stealing water worth £3 and getting I think 6 or 9 months prison. and an MP stealing £8,000 and saying sorry?
and the bankers losing the country millions and being paid bonuses for it?

is this it now. are we going to clamp down hard on the youth of today, or are we going to do something to help them?
if the answer comes down to just go out and get a job, then I don't think we're going to get anywhere really.