Riots

[denphone]

PM says water cannon available at 24 hours notice and also say that 'Some parts of society are not just broken, but sick' and on that point l agree with him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...iots-live.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...-day-four-live

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Osem

Or more accurately:

If we're rightly not going to tar the whole UK with this brush let's not tar the whole of England with it. Let's hope these riots don't spread to other parts of the UK but let's not pretend that if we don't get to grips with what's happening in parts of England that it won't eventually do so.

To call them 'UK riots' is inaccurate - that would imply the trouble is happening in other countries within the UK. It is not. The riots are (so far) happening in England only. To try to go one further and say it should be referred to as "certain parts of England" is nit-picking in the extreme, it would be like objecting to initially calling them the 'London Riots' as they were only occuring in 'parts of London'.

Had these riots been taking place in Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham only the press would be rightly referring to them as 'Welsh riots' or 'Riots in Wales'. All we ask for is a little consistency.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Sasha222

A 26-year-old man shot in a car during riots in Croydon has died in hospital

I get the feeling he would have been shot regardless of the recent events.

Originally Posted by Gary L

'Mark Duggan did not open fire at Police'

that's the last thing we need to hear at the moment.

He still had a load, illegal firearm. AND he knew the Police were following him. If I knew I was being followed by a firearms unit then I'd make 110% sure I followed every instruction I was given to the letter.

Originally Posted by Tuftus

It lists the options open to the Police, tells us what a good idea they are and then tells us why we are too much of a pansie country to do it.

Baton rounds. Aiming point is near the belt buckle so a good chance a direct hit will stop the next generation of hooligans from being bred.

Originally Posted by Russ

There has been no trouble anywhere in Wales, Scotland or N Ireland connected to it. These are indeed England's riots.

So far. A few people up here have been arrested for attempting to incite riots. A few have found out starting Facebook groups under your own name trying to incide violence is a poor idea.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by Osem

Don't know about you but I don't want my high street all pink for weeks/months so why not use Smartwater to mark the villains instead?

Perhaps the makers could rename their product 'idiotwater' just for the purpose...

It can be cleaned with the correct product, which the cops control.

[Sparkle]

My take on this is that this country will never be quite the same.
The hoodlums have discovered they have power in numbers, and they have the confidence to back it up.
Without a standing army policing each city, we're vulnerable - and they know it.

We've been hearing a lot of how bad the recent events are, but I see it from another perspective. I think it's good that the public are now aware of the situation in our society, in a time where we still have a functioning police service and infrastructure.

Could you imagine how bad it would be if the recent events hadn't occurred (and hence changes that inevitably will be made, not made) and we only discover this after a REAL disaster?

Such as, a mass epidemic or national food shortage. We would be queuing up for food/water/medicine alongside these hoodlums, and it wouldn't be the police dealing with them - it would be you and your families.

The recent events have highlighted a serious problem in a fashion that is clear for all to see, and hopefully the underlying causes will be dealt with.
If they aren't, then the problem will remain literally on our doorstep, just waiting.
Just like an opportunistic pathogen, the moment the immune system (security infrastructure) is stretched, the trap will be sprung.

[Gary L]

Well said Sparkle. a lot of sense spoken.

[Sparkle]

Also, what I find particularly worrying about this situation is that it's going to be near impossible to address.
The fundamental reason these people hate the police, is that most if not all have had run-ins with the police because its the job of the police to curb their criminal activities.

I've seen plenty of interviews with locals claiming that it's the police's fault for not listening to the local yoofs. I'd say the majority get "stop and searched" because the police have good reason to.

The only solutions I can see are as follows.
Lock'em all up.
pro- gets them off the street; contains the problem.
con- financially unworkable, and unless they're going to be permanently incarcerated, they'll just come out hardened criminals. Prison (in it's current form) isn't really a deterrent to these thugs.

Make prison a deterrent (or set up work camps)
pro- some reduction in crime
con- current human rights laws might be a problem. These thugs aren't intelligent enough to realise that they will eventually get caught.

Get them into work
pro- gives them something to lose
con- takes jobs away from those more deserving. Unlikely to successful as these people appear quite set in their ways.

I think this problem is a classic example of "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
I think "the ounce of prevention" would have been discipline and education at a young age. As the horse has already bolted so to speak, getting these people to rehabilitate might be an almost superhuman undertaking.

Even if water cannon and rubber bullets are employed, it still doesn't address the underlying core problems - which as mentioned above will remain until the security services are stretched, only to reappear.

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

Thanks Gary !

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

My take on this is that this country will never be quite the same.
The hoodlums have discovered they have power in numbers, and they have the confidence to back it up.

Well, it's not as if there isn't a history of rioting in this country is there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

I counted about 30 in England in the 20th and 21st Century. That's an average of one nearly every 3 years.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by danielf

Well, it's not as if there isn't a history of rioting in this country is there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

I counted about 30 in England in the 20th and 21st Century. That's an average of one nearly every 3 years.

It's not really the same though. this has gone on for days now. and it's extending to other parts. simply because they've seen that nothing's being done.

hang on. Dave has said that he's managed to obtain a water cannon!

I don't know if this has been posted. Please do not watch if likely to offend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo

[danielf]

Originally Posted by MK1

I don't know if this has been posted. Please do not watch if likely to offend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo

It's only been posted four times before now. You're the fifth

Originally Posted by danielf

It's only been posted four times before now. You're the fifth

I don't have a spare few hours to look at every post in this thread which is already 49 pages long. I looked at the previous 5 pages but then realised there's another 44 to go.

[Sparkle]

It'll be interesting to see how effective a watercannon will be. In order to be effective, several might be needed.
A watercannon has been shown to be effective where the protest is at a single, fixed location. However, these recent riots seem to be very mobile, and in various locations simultaneously with the rioters playing a cat and mouse game with the police.

With rioters making good use of the terrain (sidestreets to outflank police, etc), it might be difficult to pin them to one location to facilitate use of the watercannon.

Originally Posted by Gary L

It's not really the same though. this has gone on for days now. and it's extending to other parts. simply because they've seen that nothing's being done.

hang on. Dave has said that he's managed to obtain a water cannon!

Nothing except

Metropolitan Police arresting 768 people
Manchester & Salford Police arresting 113 people
Liverpool Police arresting 50 people
Nottinghamshire Police arresting 90 people
West Midlands Police arresting 109 people
and an extra 10,000 Police on the streets of London

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nothing except

Metropolitan Police arresting 768 people
Manchester & Salford Police arresting 113 people
Liverpool Police arresting 50 people
Nottinghamshire Police arresting 90 people
West Midlands Police arresting 109 people
and an extra 10,000 Police on the streets of London

Yep. and in the meantime houses and shops are still being burned. people are being killed. and shops are being robbed.

Dave actually says in his stern voice "a water cannon at 24 hours notice"

I like Dave. he's funny.

I popped into the bank earlier to deposit a cheque. the woman said I bet you're surprised we're empty. I told her has she looked outside lately, it's deserted.
people are too scared to go out. I need to let them know the water cannon is coming.