Riots

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I know. the excuses I've heard are high unemployment.

it started off as unhappiness towards the police and the injustice of it all, and they throw not having a job and claiming benefits into it all.

That high unemployment thing puzzles me a bit. For instance, wherever you go these days you see hand car washes which seem to be all run by eastern european incomers. Some of them barely speak any english but they're trying to make their way and learn. Seems to me if these guys can find a way there ought to be a way for our other vibrant culture-enrichers to do the same.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by denphone

The Home secretary cuts short her holiday and returns home to take charge of the situation and pity some other politicians could not return home from their holidays as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...am-duggan-blog

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...iots-live.html

Fancy putting together a list of ALL the politicians on holiday at the moment

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

He didn't sterotype anyone, he said "ask some of the students that were rioting"

Thank you

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Fancy putting together a list of ALL the politicians on holiday at the moment

Well most of them are on holiday but in times of crisis the public would like the most important ones to stay at home as it sends a better message to the public that you are worried and concerned about this countrys troubles.

[Stephen]

So with the rioting and looting spreading to other areas its clear now that there are just people out there looking to cause trouble and steal goods and try to blame it on the shooting last week.

I hope the Police catch as many people with stolen goods as possible.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Well most of them are on holiday but in times of crisis the public would like the most important ones to stay at home as it sends a better message to the public that you are worried and concerned about this countrys troubles.

I don't agree at all, most of them aren't abroad I would imagine and also how does an MP really help in these situations?

Its like those saying the PM should come home. Why exactly he isn't exactly able to stop them or fix things.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Talk about all politicans being on hols, I was under the impression that if Cameron was on Hols, his deputy had to take the riegns, but its being left down to the sidekick, Mr Hague who couldn't organise anything.

Becuase of this increasing problem, then one of the leaders has to come back and take hold of the situation.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So with the rioting and looting spreading to other areas its clear now that there are just people out there looking to cause trouble and steal goods and try to blame it on the shooting last week.

I hope the Police catch as many people with stolen goods as possible.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------


I don't agree at all, most of them aren't abroad I would imagine and also how does an MP really help in these situations?

Its like those saying the PM should come home. Why exactly he isn't exactly able to stop them or fix things.

But it gives a better impression to the public of being in control of a crisis or serious situation Stephen.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by denphone

But it gives a better impression to the public of being in control of a crisis or serious situation Stephen.

Well in theory yes but in practice no. Just cause some MP or the PM tells us its under control and being dealt with doesn't really mean anything coming from them.

Its the Police that are better to issue a statement and show control in this type of situation.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by denphone

Well most of them are on holiday but in times of crisis the public would like the most important ones to stay at home as it sends a better message to the public that you are worried and concerned about this countrys troubles.

You just love sticking the knife in

But care to tell me what the pm could do that Teresa May cannot, Plus i don't see a lot of ideas coming from the other group on holiday.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well in theory yes but in practice no. Just cause some MP or the PM tells us its under control and being dealt with doesn't really mean anything coming from them.

Its the Police that are better to issue a statement and show control in this type of situation.

Yes l know where you are coming from but as we all know in the last 2 months with the News International scandal the Met police cannot keep control of their own affairs so people do not have that much confidence with what they come out with or do.

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

You just love sticking the knife in

But care to tell me what the pm could do that Teresa May cannot, Plus i don't see a lot of ideas coming from the other group on holiday.

First of all dear Sirius this is a non political point that l am making and secondly especially with the worldwide economic crisis l think it would wiser if the PM holidayed at home rather then tally ho to somewhere abroad.

[Huss73]

So frustrating to watch the police just standing there with hands tied.

The fact is in most other countries this type of thing would be put down........sometimes bloodily.

We have a police service who 99% of the time are not armed and have nothing but a stick and spray to protect themselves, and it is still the best police force in the world.

Its daft it is, I live about 20miles away from the mayhem, but i might as well live on a different planet. Glad i do to be honest. Troublemaking kids who want a scrap with the Old Bill, who ought to be tear gassedd, tasered and arrested. Nothing political about it, the police have crept around these areas like social workers for 25 years.

Originally Posted by denphone

Yes l know where you are coming from but as we all know in the last 2 months with the News International scandal the Met police cannot keep control of their own affairs so people do not have that much confidence with what they come out with or do.

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------



First of all dear Sirius this is a non political point that l am making and secondly especially with the worldwide economic crisis l think it would wiser if the PM holidayed at home rather then tally ho to somewhere abroad.

It's probably quicker to fly back from Europe than drive from Cornwall to London - and with modern communications (tele and videoconferencing), do you really believe that the PM is not in touch.

btw, which crystal ball should he have used to know the riots were going to happen?

btw2, funny how your "non-political" point always seemed aimed at the present government, and if any similar occurrences that happened to the previous government are raised, you consistently reply "but that was in the past, we are talking about the present" - it must be the most partisan "non-political" posts I have ever seen....

btw3, I am not sure what your comparison between the NI farrago and the current riots entail, except they both involve the police.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's probably quicker to fly back from Europe than drive from Cornwall to London - and with modern communications (tele and videoconferencing), do you really believe that the PM is not in touch.

btw, which crystal ball should he have used to know the riots were going to happen?

btw2, funny how your "non-political" point always seemed aimed at the present government, and if any similar occurrences that happened to the previous government are raised, you consistently reply "but that was in the past, we are talking about the present" - it must be the most partisan "non-political" posts I have ever seen....

btw3, I am not sure what your comparison between the NI farrago and the current riots entail, except they both involve the police.

Right the first point you made is generally these things build up over several days so the authorities should be on their guard, secondly l would make the same point and have done in the past to any other political party that was in government so it is not bias to any one party, and the third point l made is that the Met police in the last 2 months is a total shambles as we have seen with the 2 resignations and several police officers receiving money for information from the NOTW so it basically tells you what a utter mess it is in and at present has a rudderless leadership and that does not improve morale with the normal bobby on the street.

Originally Posted by denphone

Right the first point you made is generally these things build up over several days so the authorities should be on their guard, secondly l would make the same point and have done in the past to any other political party that was in government so it is not bias to any one party, and the third point l made is that the Met police in the last 2 months is a total shambles as we have seen with the 2 resignations and several police officers receiving money for information from the NOTW so it basically tells you what a utter mess it is in and at present has a rudderless leadership and that does not improve morale with the normal bobby on the street.

Ahem - from the BBC timeline

From the shooting to the first rioting, the time was just over 26 hours, not "several days"; from people gathering outside the police station to the first rioting, just over 3 hours.

When in doubt, choose facts...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Why can't it be both? Rioters are wrong and not to be condoned but there is genuine anger at the police?

It can be both depending on your opinion but for the same people to claim that all this stuff is in some way a measure of support for Duggan at the same time as claiming the trouble's being done by outsiders is nonsense. We're always being told the police don't have a clue what's going on in these 'communities' yet it's apparent that those who speak for the community don't know either.

Was there genuine anger at the shopkeepers, bus drivers, firecrews too? What for? What have they done except trying to serve a 'community' which the 'spokespeople' claim is so deprived.

I've heard quite a few people claiming that Duggan was murdered and using that to justify the rioting. Do they have some proof we don't then? Judge and jury are they? They don't seem to mind circumventing and ignoring the proper legal process when the police are in the dock and it suits their agenda do they? They don't seem to mind jumping to conclusions when it suits their own prejudice. It strikes me that whatever the facts and the final outcome of the official inquiry, these people have already made up their minds and Duggan will be held up as some form of folklore victim whether he was innocent or not. If it doesn't confirm what they believe, the inquiry will be flawed and unfair, a cover-up, biased, too quick, too long or whatever. They're not interested in the truth, they know that if they repeat this sort of stuff long enough and often enough and a sizeable proportion of the community will start to believe it and use it as a perpetual excuse for wrongdoing. What do we do about that?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ahem - from the BBC timeline

From the shooting to the first rioting, the time was just over 26 hours, not "several days"; from people gathering outside the police station to the first rioting, just over 3 hours.

When in doubt, choose facts...

l am not disputing that fact but l suspect there has always been a undercurrent underneath the surface for a while but there is still no excuse for the wanton violence and criminality that we saw on the streets of Tottenham and other parts to a lesser extent.