TiVo TiVo Picture Quality - Page 29

Lew · 30-06-2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBoz

I still have a nagging doubt that there are 2 PQ problems. The interlacing problem Lew posted the pictures of, and the soft washed out picture that I'm seeing.

I say this because I see the soft washed out picture whether I'm at 720p or 1080i, but I also get the flicker with 720p.

Whereas Lew says he can't see a PQ problem unless he's up close and looking at the interlacing.

Hopefully they are one and the same... but I have that nagging doubt.

Boz

It could also be that the washed out problem is a symptom of the interlacing problem on certain TVs. Does your TV have any picture processing turned on? I've calibrated my TV with the AVS HD 709 calibration disc and as a result all of the picture processing is switched off.

DaBoz · 30-06-2011, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

It could also be that the washed out problem is a symptom of the interlacing problem on certain TVs. Does your TV have any picture processing turned on? I've calibrated my TV with the AVS HD 709 calibration disc and as a result all of the picture processing is switched off.

My 32" 720p LCD TV has no processing capabilities. I really hope you're right about the interlacing problem!

ntl.wotcha · 01-07-2011, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBoz

I still have a nagging doubt that there are 2 PQ problems. The interlacing problem Lew posted the pictures of, and the soft washed out picture that I'm seeing.

No I think it's the same issue. On my TV in certain modes the processing does a pretty good job of cleaning up the text however it does soften it a fair bit. In basic modes it is corrupt but sharp.

Interestingly, this remains true even with all picture processing options disabled in either mode so it's quite possible some TVs have some processing going on behind the scenes.

pythagoras · 01-07-2011, 00:31

If the problem is because of this, which I suspect it is,
"Field order
[15] An NTSC "frame" consists of an "even" field followed by an "odd" field. As far as the reception of an analog signal is concerned, this is purely a matter of convention and, it makes no difference. It's rather like the broken lines running down the middle of a road, it doesn't matter whether it is a line/space pair or a space/line pair, the effect to a driver is exactly the same.
The introduction of digital television formats has changed things somewhat. Most digital TV formats, including the popular DVD format, record NTSC originated video with the even field first in the recorded frame (the development of DVD took place in regions that traditionally utilize NTSC). However, this frame sequence has migrated through to the so-called PAL format (actually a technically incorrect description) of digital video with the result that the even field is often recorded first in the frame (the European 625 line system is specified as odd frame first). This is no longer a matter of convention because a frame of digital video is a distinct entity on the recorded medium. This means that when reproducing many non NTSC based digital formats (including DVD) it is necessary to reverse the field order otherwise an unacceptable shuddering "comb" effect occurs on moving objects as they are shown ahead in one field and then jump back in the next.
This has also become a hazard where non NTSC progressive video is transcoded to interlaced and vice versa. Systems that recover progressive frames or transcode video should ensure that the "Field Order" is obeyed, otherwise the recovered frame will consist of a field from one frame and a field from an adjacent frame, resulting in "comb" interlacing artifacts. This can often be observed in PC based video playing utilities if an inappropriate choice of de-interlacing algorithm is made."

It will effect every TV, however processing will make it worse as processing relies on recieving the frames in the correct order. I suspect plasma TV's will mask this problem pretty well also.

Regards

John.

HDFootyMan · 01-07-2011, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Well, given that in this thread it's been made apparent that Samsung TVs aren't affected-

Whoa! I have a Sammy TV with reduced TiVo SD picture quality compared to the SA V+HD. Guess I never got the memo.

Lew · 01-07-2011, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDFootyMan

Whoa! I have a Sammy TV with reduced TiVo SD picture quality compared to the SA V+HD. Guess I never got the memo.

You obviously also didn't read the rest of the thread before posting.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBoz

I still have a nagging doubt that there are 2 PQ problems. The interlacing problem Lew posted the pictures of, and the soft washed out picture that I'm seeing.

I say this because I see the soft washed out picture whether I'm at 720p or 1080i, but I also get the flicker with 720p.

Whereas Lew says he can't see a PQ problem unless he's up close and looking at the interlacing.

Hopefully they are one and the same... but I have that nagging doubt.

Boz

Thinking some more on this post, I believe the reason you see a washed-out picture on 1080i and 720p and a flickering picture on 720p is because your TV is 720p, although I'd imagine that like most 720p TVs sold here it's actually 768p so both resolutions are slightly scaled. Even with a 1080p TV the 720p setting flickers so that's what the TiVo is outputting, but your TV scaling the 1080i output would make it look the same as the 720p output. Am I right in thinking that, apart from the flicker, the 720p and 1080i settings look pretty much the same on your TV? I think that the interlaced picture is probably only visible as such on a 1080 screen; lower-resolution screens should make it look the same as the 720p setting.

ryan2801 · 22-07-2011, 10:58

Glad I read this thread as I've ordered a Tivo for next month. A mixed bag of reviews for sure. A poll would be most helpful.
Has anyone had any issues with LG TVs? Mine is 42 inch Full HD.

jonop360 · 04-08-2011, 14:07

after work in my area the pq on my tivo is constantly pixelating
my signal strength is 0 but dont know what it was before hand.
what are you guys getting and are there anyother reasons for the drop in stability

Digital Fanatic · 04-08-2011, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonop360

after work in my area the pq on my tivo is constantly pixelating
my signal strength is 0 but dont know what it was before hand.
what are you guys getting and are there anyother reasons for the drop in stability

All the boxes say 0 for signal strength, it's not reported on the box at the moment.

You'll need to call faults on 151 and report the poor pics.

Tivo user · 09-08-2011, 21:59

Hey peeps I've had Tivo installed for about 3 weeks now and I'm concerned about the very poor picture quality. I came over from freeview but I am really thinking about ditching the tivo as it makes freeview look like it was HD.

Also the menus are so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and that stupid red spinning thing really annoys the hell out of me so does anyone have any solution?

muppetman11 · 09-08-2011, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tivo user

Hey peeps I've had Tivo installed for about 3 weeks now and I'm concerned about the very poor picture quality. I came over from freeview but I am really thinking about ditching the tivo as it makes freeview look like it was HD.

Also the menus are so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and that stupid red spinning thing really annoys the hell out of me so does anyone have any solution?

Have you not embraced the doughnut

, it depends on how badly you feel, the PQ is believed to have a fix in the pipeline and I'm sure the slowness will be looked into but as for time frames pass maybe someone on here can help more.

New to cable · 09-08-2011, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tivo user

Hey peeps I've had Tivo installed for about 3 weeks now and I'm concerned about the very poor picture quality. I came over from freeview but I am really thinking about ditching the tivo as it makes freeview look like it was HD.

Also the menus are so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and that stupid red spinning thing really annoys the hell out of me so does anyone have any solution?

Well thats a very brave comment from you on this site. I don't have Tivo but have heard from a lot of people that it has very poor picture quality.

You may be told I am troll by the way but I would ask you to read my posting history and read the bullying I have received on this site.

Muppetman and Devilincarnate are great posters offering great impartial advice. Denphone is a Mode Edit and i advise you to ignore him.

devilincarnate · 09-08-2011, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by New to cable

Muppetman and Devilincarnate are great posters offering great impartial advice. Denphone is a Mod Edit and i advise you to ignore him.

Thank you for that but I have to say that Den can be like Marmite (you either love him or hate him) I love his aspects as they add to the debate that we have on here

**Maggy** · 10-08-2011, 01:04

No more abuse directed at other members please.If you have a problem with another member please use the ignore function.

Tivo user · 10-08-2011, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

No more abuse directed at other members please.If you have a problem with another member please use the ignore function.

To be fair to the "new cable" guy having looked through his posting history he hasn't actually had ago at anyone.