David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president

Originally Posted by papa smurf

its already settled- Argentina invaded. and got their ass kicked after inflicting unforgivable casualties to British forces ,i don't see whats up for negotiation .

Oil ,they didn't show any real interest untill we started exploritory drilling last year in the surrounding waters .If we don't find oil will argentina still be so interested ,i think not

[Anonymouse]

We don't want any military conflict and a possible resurgence of the 'war spirit' we got last time - Thatcher took full advantage of that to smash the unions and ruin this country by selling everything off, a classic example of disaster capitalism. She'd wanted to use shock therapy for years, but until the Falklands happened she had no excuse. 'There is no such thing as society' is classic capitalist thinking at its very worst.

Do we want Cameron et al to do something similar? I sure as hell don't. The country's in enough of a mess as it is.

(See Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine for details of disaster capitalism)

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Actually that's not the reason.

The reason it has become an issue and was raised at PM question time was because a chap called James Beck, whose father helped the British forces in 82, gave up his British passport for an Argentine one and Kirchner presented it to him personally (much to the annoyance of some MPs who raised the issue in the House).

I stand corrected Sir

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Anonymous

We don't want any military conflict and a possible resurgence of the 'war spirit' we got last time - Thatcher took full advantage of that to smash the unions and ruin this country by selling everything off, a classic example of disaster capitalism. She'd wanted to use shock therapy for years, but until the Falklands happened she had no excuse. 'There is no such thing as society' is classic capitalist thinking at its very worst.

Do we want Cameron et al to do something similar? I sure as hell don't. The country's in enough of a mess as it is.

(See Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine for details of disaster capitalism)

We dont have the ability to defend the Falklands any more. Infact i dont think we could defend our own country against anyone any more

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

Thatcher took full advantage of that to smash the unions and ruin this country by selling everything off

Smash unions = A good thing. This country is run by a democratically elected Government, not a gang of Trotskyite coal miners.

Selling everything off = A good thing. The democratically elected government of this country should concentrate on creating a safe environment where people can live their own lives according to their own choices, not trying to sell us gas, electricity and telephones.

'There is no such thing as society' is classic capitalist thinking at its very worst.

Actually it's a classic example of a quote gleefully wrenched out of context and repeated so often that few people bother to question what she actually said and what she actually meant.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I stand corrected Sir

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------



We dont have the ability to defend the Falklands any more. Infact i dont think we could defend our own country against anyone any more

i thought the Falklands was more heavily defended than the UK
from what i understand the uk's main line of defence is mothballs .

Anytime an argentinian politician wants to rouse the population they bring up the falklands and as soon as they achieve their short term goal they drop it again. As for the US wanting this settled well time to tell them to sod off really it has nothing to do with them and the only reason they want a settlement is so US oil companys can move in on any sizeable oil fields found.

Could we defend the falklands as we did last time currently no we couldn't we don't have the naval power right now to do it and i doubt the political will if we did have the naval forces. But as Chris said the falklands are not the easy target they once were and it would be a brave argie admiral\general that fancied his chances anytime soon.

End of the day we gave an assurance to the islanders that as long as the majority of them wanted to remain UK citizens their wishes would be met and if we were to ever break that promise i think it would be a dark day for the UK as a whole.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chris

Actually it's a classic example of a quote gleefully wrenched out of context and repeated so often that few people bother to question what she actually said and what she actually meant.

It's one of my favourite self contradictory quotes of all time and, I suspect, one of the first signs that the cheese was starting to slide off her cracker.

"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society"

I know what the words she said were - what she meant was, society is not a faceless mass that simply takes on problems and deal with them without there being any consequences for anyone else. It is comprised of real, individual people - i.e. when someone absolves themselves of their problems, they make them someone else's problem.

That's a problem that in many ways still exists today. We have a well-known member of this very forum who posts repeatedly to say that his main criterion for voting is to choose a government that will "look after me and my family". That's a nonsense; we are not clients of a faceless State any more than we are the dependants of a faceless Society. The State is paid for by real people; society is made of real people. Everything we feel entitled to receive, ultimately is provided by other people.

End of off-topic rant.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Chris

Smash unions = A good thing. This country is run by a democratically elected Government, not a gang of Trotskyite coal miners.

Selling everything off = A good thing. The democratically elected government of this country should concentrate on creating a safe environment where people can live their own lives according to their own choices, not trying to sell us gas, electricity and telephones.



Actually it's a classic example of a quote gleefully wrenched out of context and repeated so often that few people bother to question what she actually said and what she actually meant.

You are trying to tar every union with the same brush and my dad was a union shop steward and he was never confrontational with anybody and always tryed to come to a amicable solution if he could.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I know what the words she said were - what she meant was, society is not a faceless mass that simply takes on problems and deal with them without there being any consequences for anyone else. It is comprised of real, individual people - i.e. when someone absolves themselves of their problems, they make them someone else's problem.

That's a problem that in many ways still exists today. We have a well-known member of this very forum who posts repeatedly to say that his main criterion for voting is to choose a government that will "look after me and my family". That's a nonsense; we are not clients of a faceless State any more than we are the dependants of a faceless Society. The State is paid for by real people; society is made of real people. Everything we feel entitled to receive, ultimately is provided by other people.

End of off-topic rant.

We get told off for going off topic.

Indeed we do ... naughty me. I hereby suspend myself from the forum for 10 minutes

Re your dad ... I don't doubt it - but then 'smash the unions' is equally a somewhat hysterical and sweeping generalisation, wouldn't you agree?

If I smash a glass or a plate, generally it ceases to exist and I have to throw the broken bits in the bin.

The trades unions still exist, however the worst excesses of the abuse of power that gave industrial relations such a bad name in the 1970s are, thankfully, curbed.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chris

I know what the words she said were - what she meant was, society is not a faceless mass that simply takes on problems and deal with them without there being any consequences for anyone else. It is comprised of real, individual people - i.e. when someone absolves themselves of their problems, they make them someone else's problem.

That's a problem that in many ways still exists today. We have a well-known member of this very forum who posts repeatedly to say that his main criterion for voting is to choose a government that will "look after me and my family". That's a nonsense; we are not clients of a faceless State any more than we are the dependants of a faceless Society. The State is paid for by real people; society is made of real people. Everything we feel entitled to receive, ultimately is provided by other people.

End of off-topic rant.

I'm sure in her dotage she's glad you're here to interpret her intent for her Chris.

If that's what a certain well known member of this forum sets his main criterion for voting as then well done him for exercising his democratic right and having the wherewithall to have a barometer by which he feels he can judge a potential Government.

Who are you, I or anyone else who believes in a democracy, to assert that his moral barometer is "a nonsense"?

END.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed we do ... naughty me. I hereby suspend myself from the forum for 10 minutes

Re your dad ... I don't doubt it - but then 'smash the unions' is equally a somewhat hysterical and sweeping generalisation, wouldn't you agree?

If I smash a glass or a plate, generally it ceases to exist and I have to throw the broken bits in the bin.

The trades unions still exist, however the worst excesses of the abuse of power that gave industrial relations such a bad name in the 1970s are, thankfully, curbed.

Yes l do agree that it is a hysterical and sweeping generalisation and l do agree that there were some union leaders one in particular Arthur Scargill who was a absolute idiot and he never helped his members at all and in matter of fact made things much much worse for them.

[staggie]

they wount dare 2 words

nuclear submarine

Flt. Lt. William Wales is following in his uncle Andrew's rotor blades and heading south to fly helicopters in the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15682242

Originally Posted by Chris

Flt. Lt. William Wales is following in his uncle Andrew's rotor blades and heading south to fly helicopters in the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15682242

So when are the Argies going to invade ?