Anyone actually been cut off/restricted because of the Detrimental Usage? - Page 2

Nopanic · 12-06-2011, 08:22

Is it possible to download 350GB of legal material a month ?

Unless you use it for business then I would suggest not ..

I agree totally that unlimited should mean unlimited, but the network is never going to be able to handle everyone at full speed all the time, to do that you would need to have stupid monthly costs, which you're not willing to pay ..

Unlimited is also controlled by the FUP ..I download a lot and am in the same boat as every other user, if I do it too much I will get the letters and risk being cut off, only difference for me is, it could cost me my job .. I use the service for VPN.

Skie · 12-06-2011, 10:51

I'd be willing to pay a bit more for lower jitter. Fastpath style. That and to not have the network eat packets either due to congestion or horrible DPI when things get busy.

Streaming HD content from iPlayer can use quite a bit or simply downloading them. 800K/sec to stream or 1.1gb to download a 59 minute show. (I should note the streaming value is a bit of a guesstimate as the iPlayer tends to pulse from 2MB/sec to 100K/sec rather than being a continual stream of data). One person hitting 350GB in that way would be possible if only they spent their life watching online TV, but a household would do it much easier (especially with teens watching their own shows in their own rooms).

Toss in Steam (one 9GB game recently had two patches of 9GB each), dropbox and general youtube viewing and you could reasonably get close each month.

kwikbreaks · 12-06-2011, 10:55

I don't understand the obsession with legal v. illegal downloads. Does anybody think it costs less for VM to provide capacity for legal downloads than illegal ones? Bandwidth is bandwidth. Legal v illegal is a pointless argument. Few will put up their hands to hookey downloads on a board anyway.

350GB during peak times if that is the supposed trigger for snotty letters is one hell of a lot..
if movies it's about 14 full bluray
or
40 mkv @ 1080p
or
80 mkv @ 720p
or
more divx quality than anybody could watch in the month.

If it's linux ISOs then you'd need multiple folks installing to keep up.

If it's porn you'd need half a hundredweight of viagra and a container load of tissues.

If it's streaming video then you'll soon be needing SpecSavers.

No idea how many games it might be but I suspect games couldn't match video for GB/hour consumption anyway.

I can't think of any other regular need consumer style high download material - perhaps one of the high downloaders can add to that list.

Dave9946 · 12-06-2011, 14:38

I think part of the problem is nobody at virgin has to my knowledge ever stated how they impliment the fair use policy\detrimental letter trigger.

If could be that they might have a set 12.5GB per day cap, is could be your fine if you do 300GB in side a week and dont even do half of the remaining 50GB for the rest of the month.

If we use 300GB over 7 days I could get the letter. If we use 15GB per day for 14 days we could still get the letter even though we may only have used 210GB and bearly use the net for the next 2 weeks.

When they are keeping so much from us thats needed to comply with there precious policy it makes keeping within that policy impossable. Which you'd think is against there own policy in not detailing how to keep inside there policy.

An no matter what you use that bandwidth for I'd still like to know how on average if you downloaded for 45 mins per day your classed as a heavy user?. It was claimed that we were downloading at a rate of GB per hour at a time when the pc was sitting idle and nobodt was using the internet. If they are accusing you of breaking there policy how can that stand when they refuse to detail by providing the figures?.

Also as mentioned what about excluded traffic sites?.

Also is the issue of excluded traffic sites?. As we to be expected to say downloading as little as 12GB per day average causes severe problems on the network in that area and send the letter out. Yet a family who might use 15GB per day average with excluded sites is ok and are not having a severe affect on users in your area?.

Skie · 12-06-2011, 16:55

I think with VM's network they can't really have excluded traffic sites.

The bandwidth/utilization issues are down to the local network and how cable upstream works, not with the actual cost of external bandwidth.

Chrysalis · 12-06-2011, 23:09

I agree with kwikbreaks, the legal vs illegal argument is put forward to try and justify isp's throttling and FUP's as if they only affecting illegal activity and its ok because they doing the law a favour. That to me doesnt wash.

However the isp's are digging themselves a hole, if a content provider goes after the isp, the defense normally is they are simply a carrier of traffic and not responsible for what the user does, however by shaping torrents etc. the isp is proving they can identify traffic that has a high likelyhoood of been copyrighted material and as such by not blocking it they could be found liable.

Nopanic · 13-06-2011, 06:31

The illegal vs legal is irrelevant from an ISP's point of view, data is data to them, but I'm asking how can someone complain about not being allowed to download illegal material ?

kwikbreaks · 13-06-2011, 07:20

Probably as easily as an ISP can advertise an unlimited service but apply limitations to it which it won't disclose to those being limited.

I know of at least one perfectly legitimate way to max out any speed line you can get 24x7. Perfectly legal yet VM would soon boot anybody off who persisted with it. As you can see from the daily stats some (non-UK) ISPs deliver what they advertise...

http://www.majestic12.co.uk/

Nopanic · 13-06-2011, 07:22

How?

kwikbreaks · 13-06-2011, 07:56

Visit the majestic12 link. Sign up. Download the crawler. Run it 24x7 set to utilise maximum bandwidth. If one crawler machine can't max out the line run more than one. Wait for the letter.

Nothing illegal. No need for a container load of terrabyte disks.

Dave9946 · 13-06-2011, 10:06

I'd still like a single virgin employee on this board to say (without refering to the AUP or any policy or that the advertising section is seperate etc) what they feel the message in virgins advertising for the 50MB is trying to get accross to customers & new customers?.

Surely virgin have to apply 1 or the other and simply cant have 1 message for advertising and something completly different once you sign. For the record I'm all for a limit just as long as that limit is stated and explained how it is enforced. But seeing as they already have 1 they seem to enforce I refute there is a compliable policy that any customer can follow because virgin refuse to detail it.

Chrysalis · 13-06-2011, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

Visit the majestic12 link. Sign up. Download the crawler. Run it 24x7 set to utilise maximum bandwidth. If one crawler machine can't max out the line run more than one. Wait for the letter.

Nothing illegal. No need for a container load of terrabyte disks.

also could queue up a large file in a ftp client again and again and set it to auto overwrite when it repeats.

nice link you posted, you got one for upload also?

I was going to saturate my upload to boost my UBR's utilisation to escalate an upgrade but it seems I may not need to now as VM seem to be doing some work on it.

kwikbreaks · 13-06-2011, 11:30

Well if the VM backup actually worked I imagine a few terrabytes of backup would keep everything busy but as anybody who's tried it already knows it crawls and it would probably be quicker viewing your data in a hex viewer and transcribing it to parchment using a quill pen.

Dave9946 · 13-06-2011, 15:51

By the way, does anyone know or actually been told by virgin why they cant\dont provide the figures on peak useage upon request after asking for them?.

I've been told it's because by the time the letters get sent out the data is already over 2 weeks old and probably more like 3 weeks or more by the time the receipient gets it to even think about enquiring. But it seems they dont actually keep the data that long as by the time you enquire about useage that old the only figures they can give you is the useage per 24 hours. So in other words they then cant tell you what you used during peak hours to dispute it or investigate useage accusations.

Wander if this is way they cant\wont also provide the average fair use for any previous month?.

Does'nt explain why they cant provide it at the time though does it?. Also it seems they choose this system of dertimental use because it is what works best for virgin even though they can easily impliment speed capping to 2MB for users after reaching a certain level.

So you do have to wander why they dont speed cap for the rest of peak hours on any given day\week month and prefer to send these letters out instead?.

Nopanic · 13-06-2011, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

Visit the majestic12 link. Sign up. Download the crawler. Run it 24x7 set to utilise maximum bandwidth. If one crawler machine can't max out the line run more than one. Wait for the letter.

Nothing illegal. No need for a container load of terrabyte disks.

Not really a useful reason is it ..