Ghosts

[Barewolf]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Animals get used to when things happen, like patterns. My cats are always waiting by the door when I get home, due to it being at the same time almost every day.

I do think your mind may be playing tricks on you though.

and my dog knows when its 6pm as its when she gets dinner, but other things aside from the obvious cant easily be explained.

[AdamD]

Originally Posted by Damien

Ghosts are not physically possible. They both float though walls and let can make items move. Therefore they must be composed of some magical elements which can both be pretty much nothing and yet exert physical force. Not a small trick.

There is no proof. As I mentioned above you might as well be arguing for the existence of vampires or shapeshifting lizards.

Is it safe to assume you don't believe in God? (That's just a question, not a criticism :P heh)

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by Barewolf

Theres lots of things science cant explain. Take near death experiences for an example. Its about as close to this subject as you can get.

Ive read many cases that simply cant be explained away.

And scientists already have admitted that theres about 11 dimentions. Is it not equally possible that ghosts might occupy one of them?

How do you also explain dogs senses? They appear to see things we cant. Ive witnessed this first hand. I also once saw a documentary of a dog owner who had a camcorder set up to capture what his dog did when he was almost home. The Dog somehow knew his owner was on his way home, yet had no way of knowing.

I find it entirely plausible that animals can sense something we cant.

Near death experiences are believed to be products of huge releases of DMT in the brain (forgive me - I can't remember what it stands for and I can't be bothered to google it ). If i remember correctly, I think it's the Pineal Gland that releases it. there is a newer theory which points at the Sensory Autonomic System trying to find an experience that the person has had to attribute to the feeling of dying (the brain going back over previous experiences to relate to a current experience is something I talked about earlier in this thread).

as for dogs knowing when owners are coming home - well there are a couple of things I can think of off the top of my head to explain it;
1) as with most if not all living creatures, dogs have a body clock. if an event becomes routine, the dog will learn when certain things are due to happen. like the owner coming home.
2) dogs have a much better hearing system than us. the dog knows before I do that my gf has come home because she hears her car pulling up at the garage. this tends to be my cue to put the kettle on if I'm already home!!

so as you see, things can be explained with relative easy in this day and age. not everything, of course. but taking a step back and thinking about events logically will far more often than not lead to and explainable sequence of events leading to situation experienced.

i know that everyone has right to believe in whatever they want, be it God, ghosts or goblins. I'm certainly never going to tell people they cannot believe in something (or indeed, that they should). however, if it appears obvious that a belief is having a negative effect on someone, then to present them with a logical, more physical and (imo) more likely explaination of something that is troubling them, in order to calm nerves and / or relieve upset, then I will gladly do that. I feel this is one of those times.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

as for dogs knowing when owners are coming home - well there are a couple of things I can think of off the top of my head to explain it;
1) as with most if not all living creatures, dogs have a body clock. if an event becomes routine, the dog will learn when certain things are due to happen. like the owner coming home.
2) dogs have a much better hearing system than us. the dog knows before I do that my gf has come home because she hears her car pulling up at the garage. this tends to be my cue to put the kettle on if I'm already home!!

3) They can read the time on the clock.

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by Gary L

3) They can read the time on the clock.

that too, but I thought that was too obvious. everyone knows they can read the time.

Originally Posted by Barewolf

Theres lots of things science cant explain. Take near death experiences for an example. Its about as close to this subject as you can get.

idi banashapan explained the near death experiences thing well enough here.

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

Near death experiences are believed to be products of huge releases of DMT in the brain (forgive me - I can't remember what it stands for and I can't be bothered to google it ). If i remember correctly, I think it's the Pineal Gland that releases it. there is a newer theory which points at the Sensory Autonomic System trying to find an experience that the person has had to attribute to the feeling of dying (the brain going back over previous experiences to relate to a current experience is something I talked about earlier in this thread).

Originally Posted by Barewolf

How do you also explain dogs senses? They appear to see things we cant. Ive witnessed this first hand. I also once saw a documentary of a dog owner who had a camcorder set up to capture what his dog did when he was almost home. The Dog somehow knew his owner was on his way home, yet had no way of knowing.

Yes. This case did happen. Coincidently I have recently read a book which mentions it. The great thing about that kind of incident is that it's easy to test. DR Richard Wiseman who wrote the book Paranormality did a test on this dog, i'll quote the relevant passage that explains that it was not quite what it seemed:

During the first test Matthew and Pan drove to a public house about 8 miles away and, once there, used a random number generator to select a time to head back - 9 p.m. Meanwhile, I continuously filmed Jaytee's [the dog] favorite window so that we would have a complete record of his behavior there. When Pam and Matt returned from the bar we rewound the film and observed Jaytee's behaviour. Interestingly, the terrier was at the window at the allotted time. So far, so good.

However, when we looked at the remainder of the film, Jaytee's apparent skills started to unravel. It turned out that he was something of a fan of the window, visiting it 13 times during the experiment. During a second trail the following day, Jaytee visited the window 12 times. It seemed his time in the window was not the clear cut signal that the clip from Austrian television suggested.

[Barewolf]

so how do you explain a woman who actually explained what the doctors were listening to on the radio while she had no actual brain activity, she was clinicly dead? yet she managed to tell afterwards even what tools they used on her to operate, and even their conversations.

this type of instance cant be explained by science and raises a lot of questions.

Another instance was of a man who died, and visited his wife, then his neigbour, while in this NDE state. His neigbour had a child who was constantly crying, and he could communicate with the child who somehow explained its arm was hurt, and the guy somehow saw it was twisted and broken.

When he came out of this NDE, he found out what he saw was true, and he told his neigbour of the childs arm which turned out to be broken.

Its all documented here http://www.near-death.com/

Look under the "Notable NDE" section, I forget the names of these two cases I just mentioned.

One thing is clear, that some NDE can be explained away but a majority cant. And that in the most famous cases, No brain activity means people should not experience anything, not even a hallucination.

People keep mentioning Science to explain everything, yet Science cant explain these cases.

So what else is left?

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by Barewolf

snip...

So what else is left?

a pinch of salt? not being funny, but I'm sure you don't believe everything you read in the newspaper, yet you appear to be taking these stories as gospel. seems odd. did you think, perhaps, that some of these stories may actually be just that - stories. fabrications of an individual or group of people in order to gain publicity or notoriety, perhaps? I think this thread is lending itself well to the theory that humans do tend to see what they want to see in things without taking the situation as a whole into account or giving reasonable thought to seek a conclusion.

sure, some things in life are odd and cannot be explained away immediately, either because of our level of understanding, or because all the facts are not present. it would be naive to think we as a species know everything and everything. but when things can be explained away through a logical thought process or physical fact, I think we would do well to agree that logic is the path to stick to. I'm sure there are some fascinating stories of NDE out there, but this thread is about you and your experience and belief thereof. you shouldn't really attribute thruth to your belief of your experience because you found a story or two on the internet regarding something completely different. it's like saying you know for a fact Santa exists because you heard a story about a 5 year old who got 20p for their tooth from the tooth fairy.

how do you know for a fact these stories you are reading are even true? who's to say some kid in his room didn't write them and stuck a few photos of randoms in there to add some kind of weak credibility to their blog? anyone could have written the stories. just because someone says it's true doesn't mean it is - especially when it's on the internet.

I think perhaps you may be trying to find something that will add support and weight to your own belief in the hope it will convince not only others, but also yourself wholeheartedly that what you experienced was a ghost. unfortunately, I do think it is misguided. instead of looking for pages that support your theory, search and read some where people have proven ghostly sightings or events were not all they appeared to be at first glance, as damien did previously. I understand your wish to believe it was a ghost, but I don't think it will come of any good to you or your family to do so. some beliefs, like God, serve to help some people and indeed do make the individual feel comforted and lend support. choosing to believe you have a poltergeist in your home is not going to do the same for you.

[Stephen]

Of course everything can be explained by logic and science.

Look back at the middle ages and other periods without much science. They thought people were witches and thought everything unexplained was down to evil and demons. Now we know that is not the case at all.

Originally Posted by Barewolf

People keep mentioning Science to explain everything, yet Science cant explain these cases.

So what else is left?

You keep saying that and then we provide evidence that it can (NDE) or that the story was wrong (dog). So you ignore the development that actually a lot of these incidents are debunked and come up with new ones. Do you see a pattern here?

[adzii_nufc]

How is Paranormal Activity 3 coming along then?

[idi banashapan]

@barewolf - 9pm tonight on Quest. All about NDEs!!

[Pog66]

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

How is Paranormal Activity 3 coming along then?

Bearing in mind that Yvette Fielding has spent god knows how many years chasing round "haunted" buildings with the latest camera & video technology and, to date, has produced absolutely no tangible footage - I wouldn't hold your breath on that one!!

Although not any more apparently Link

[idi banashapan]

any updates to this?

[Gary L]

My father experienced a poltergeist when he was young. his mother said to them all to get out of the house quick. all the furniture was flying and crashing around the room.