To AV, or not to AV? - Page 9

Peter_ · 07-05-2011, 06:40

Pity we did not have a few more by elections as the Lib Dems would have lost heavily if we had more of them.

I have heard a rumour that if we had AV or similar then a certain female primeminister would never have been elected, now I wonder how different this country would have been if that had happened.

No idea if it is true but an interesting thought never the less and how many other famous politicians would have never been elected under this now failed system.

Jon T · 07-05-2011, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque

I have heard a rumour that if we had AV or similar then a certain female primeminister would never have been elected, now I wonder how different this country would have been if that had happened.

One possibility is that the country would have been held to ransom by Authur Scargill, the coal miners and the Unions.

The Unions in turn would be much more powerful than they are today.

Ignitionnet · 07-05-2011, 15:27

Another is that we'd have joined the Euro and presently be enjoying EU enforced austerity, as we wouldn't have been able to devalue or do a Quantitative Easing programme.

We'd also likely be less wealthy, and the 'assault on living standards' as Labour call it, or living within your means rather than dumping debt on our kids who can't vote and therefore don't get a say in the minds of the authoritarian power obsessed Labour party as most people call it, would feel more bitter as the 'means' would be lacking.

Things could also be better, as we might have had a genuinely liberal governance, rather than socialist under the guise of 'liberal' or authoritarian statist under the guise of 'progressive'.

We could quite do with someone with the testicles of Thatcher right now actually to sort out a couple of issues, sadly my 8 year old daughter has more testicular fortitude than Cameron, Clegg and Miliband put together.

Peter_ · 07-05-2011, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon T

One possibility is that the country would have been held to ransom by Authur Scargill, the coal miners and the Unions.

The Unions in turn would be much more powerful than they are today.

All just supposition but an interesting thought either way especially as the last time they thought about this was pre war, so how many famous names would we have not seen in the last 80 years.

Chrysalis · 07-05-2011, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Another is that we'd have joined the Euro and presently be enjoying EU enforced austerity, as we wouldn't have been able to devalue or do a Quantitative Easing programme.

We'd also likely be less wealthy, and the 'assault on living standards' as Labour call it, or living within your means rather than dumping debt on our kids who can't vote and therefore don't get a say in the minds of the authoritarian power obsessed Labour party as most people call it, would feel more bitter as the 'means' would be lacking.

Things could also be better, as we might have had a genuinely liberal governance, rather than socialist under the guise of 'liberal' or authoritarian statist under the guise of 'progressive'.

We could quite do with someone with the testicles of Thatcher right now actually to sort out a couple of issues, sadly my 8 year old daughter has more testicular fortitude than Cameron, Clegg and Miliband put together.

The lib dems are weak right now, the problem for cameron tho is he still needs them, if he were eg. to call an election tommorow I reckon labour would win it outright with a majority.

**Chris** · 08-05-2011, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The lib dems are weak right now, the problem for cameron tho is he still needs them, if he were eg. to call an election tommorow I reckon labour would win it outright with a majority.

Are you quite serious? Presumably you were watching an entirely different set of election results coming in last Friday.

Chrysalis · 08-05-2011, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Are you quite serious? Presumably you were watching an entirely different set of election results coming in last Friday.

I am serious, there is a lot of people unhappy about the current cuts and my guess is the tories are currently less popular then the day of the last election. People hated brown and yet the tories could only crawl into power with the lib dems help.

**Chris** · 08-05-2011, 20:27

There is no need to guess. The Tories gained seats in councils across England last week at the same time as the bottom dropped out of Labour's universe across the whole of Scotland. Labour gained far fewer council seats in these elections than the Tories did with William Hague as leader in the late 1990s and while they have improved their standing in Wales, they have done so from a very low base and have failed to advance nearly as far as they hoped, or needed to.

The evidence says that a snap election held right now would destroy the Lib Dems and hand the Conservatives a small, but workable, majority.

Your analysis is the worst sort of rose-tinted wishful thinking. Voters had a chance to condemn the "evil Tory cuts" last week. They voted not to.

**Hugh** · 08-05-2011, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am serious, there is a lot of people unhappy about the current cuts and my guess is the tories are currently less popular then the day of the last election. People hated brown and yet the tories could only crawl into power with the lib dems help.

If the Tories are so unpopular, why did they gain seats and councils...

BBC Politics

An increase of 4 councils and 81 councillors.

On a related note, excellent results for the BNP - losing 11 seats....

Chrysalis · 08-05-2011, 21:31

lets post the full picture.

Party Total +/- Total +/-
Conservative 157 +4 4820 +81
Labour 57 +26 2392 +800
Liberal Democrat 10 -9 1056 -695

% wise the tories lost out.

**Hugh** · 08-05-2011, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am serious, there is a lot of people unhappy about the current cuts and my guess is the tories are currently less popular then the day of the last election. People hated brown and yet the tories could only crawl into power with the lib dems help.

Goalposts, moving, etc.

If they are less popular, why did their vote increase, and they gained councillors and councils?

**Paul** · 08-05-2011, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

% wise the tories lost out.

What

Chrysalis · 08-05-2011, 22:06

Labour gained 50% councils.
Tories gained 3% and thats me rounding it up been generous.
Lib dems lost almost half their councils.

**Paul** · 08-05-2011, 22:12

ROFL.

Seriously ? they "lost out" because they gained less than Labour.

You really should apply to be a spin doctor.

Chrysalis · 08-05-2011, 22:17

I am just posting facts. In terms of their votes compared to labour, labours went up by a significantly bigger margin so they would likely win a general election held tommorow if people voted the same way. Now when I said the tories popularity has gone down, granted the council results dont reflect that so I am unsure of what to think of that. This forum seems to have a high amount of right wing support, however other forums and people I know in real life dont reflect that.

Bear in mind the last election labour lost a lot of seats, the tories had a very high swing in their favour, its easier for labour to get small swing back then it is for the tories to get a further swing which would be needed to get all out power. Usually the party in power especially in recession does not get a swing in their favour at a general election.