Should Virgin Media Throttle p2p traffic? - Page 11

pip08456 · 03-05-2011, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlwaring

Whether you agree with me or no is irrelevant as what I posted was not opinion but simply actual fact

In that case would you like to explain how a reduction in speed will not reduce the amount you can download?

carlwaring · 03-05-2011, 15:21

It may reduce the overall total amount you can download but that does negate the "unlimited" tag.

VM's services are unlimited in that the amount you can download does not stop dead nor cost you any more when you reach a certain amount.

Surely it's not that difficult to understand

Ignitionnet · 03-05-2011, 15:32

I believe this is a debate Mr Waring has had on newsgroups, Digital Spy, etc, with the usual pointless and circular arguments from both sides of the spectrum.

Let's not have that in this thread, it's discussing P2P shaping not STM, DUP, how unlimited or otherwise things are. That is a subject that has been done to death then resurrected and done to death again.

VM's services are unlimited according to the Ofcom / ASA definitions. They are not unlimited from the point of view of offering 'up to' a data rate and allowing unlimited usage at that data rate due to STM / DUP.

They're close enough to unlimited that the regulator is happy, the only genuinely unlimited provider in the market is Sky's LLU product, with Be Unlimited to all intents and purposes unlimited but with provisions within FUP to sanction heavy users.

There, debate over, back to P2P.

Sirius · 03-05-2011, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlwaring

It may reduce the overall total amount you can download but that does negate the "unlimited" tag.

VM's services are unlimited in that the amount you can download does not stop dead nor cost you any more when you reach a certain amount.

Surely it's not that difficult to understand

Please don't start this old boring argument up again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I believe this is a debate Mr Waring has had on newsgroups, Digital Spy, etc, with the usual pointless and circular arguments from both sides of the spectrum.

Let's not have that in this thread, it's discussing P2P shaping not STM, DUP, how unlimited or otherwise things are. That is a subject that has been done to death then resurrected and done to death again.

VM's services are unlimited according to the Ofcom / ASA definitions. They are not unlimited from the point of view of offering 'up to' a data rate and allowing unlimited usage at that data rate due to STM / DUP.

They're close enough to unlimited that the regulator is happy, the only genuinely unlimited provider in the market is Sky's LLU product, with Be Unlimited to all intents and purposes unlimited but with provisions within FUP to sanction heavy users.

There, debate over, back to P2P.

craigj2k12 · 03-05-2011, 15:50

Sirius · 03-05-2011, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigj2k11

Keep on the medication and you will be OK in the end

craigj2k12 · 03-05-2011, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Keep on the medication and you will be OK in the end

sorry... this thread was going on for so long i thought christmas was surely near

Sirius · 03-05-2011, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigj2k11

sorry... this thread was going on for so long i thought christmas was surely near

carlwaring · 03-05-2011, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

VM's services are unlimited according to the Ofcom / ASA definitions.

Plus the broadband industry in general of course.

Quote:

They are not unlimited...

Except you just said that they are

Quote:

..from the point of view of offering 'up to' a data rate and allowing unlimited usage at that data rate due to STM / DUP.

None of which affect the "unlimited" aspect unless one of those actually cuts you off after you have downloaded a given amount. Which, in VM's case, none of them do.

Quote:

There, debate over, back to P2P.

Except that no debate has ever been needed on the subject as the word is so clearly defined; as described above.

**Hugh** · 03-05-2011, 17:21

Can we stick to the topic, please?

carlwaring · 03-05-2011, 17:25

Sorry boss.

Ignitionnet · 03-05-2011, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlwaring

None of which affect the "unlimited" aspect unless one of those actually cuts you off after you have downloaded a given amount. Which, in VM's case, none of them do.

The DUP's 3rd strike means disconnection. See http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...on-letter.html as a recent example.

This is enforcement of the following sections of the AUP:

Quote:

3.2.1. Virgin Media does not place a limit on monthly network usage. However, in isolated cases (currently less than 0.1% of customers) where excessive network usage at busy times (9am to 9pm) is having a detrimental effect on other users, we may need to take appropriate action in accordance with the terms of this AUP to notify users of the impact they are having and require them to move some of their activity into the less busy period.
3.3. During an investigation, if we believe that a violation of this AUP or our Terms and Conditions has occurred, we may take immediate remedial action. Such action may include temporary or permanent removal of material from our servers, the cancellation of newsgroup postings, warnings to the User responsible, and the suspension, restriction or termination of the User's account.

If you wish to disagree with my posts section by section please in future quote the entire relevant section in full rather than quoting a sub-section purely to take it out of context to disagree with it - quoting

Quote:

They are not unlimited...

To pick on those 4 words specifically then adding:

Quote:

from the point of view of offering 'up to' a data rate and allowing unlimited usage at that data rate due to STM / DUP.

Is disingenuous and argumentative.

I was perfectly accurate, per above the DUP results in disconnection and STM makes it impossible to achieve the advertised 'up to' data rate while it is in effect.

If you wish to be argumentative for the sake of it there are plenty of other forums that will cater for just that desire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Can we stick to the topic, please?

Apologies - it's just getting a little tiresome.

roughbeast · 03-05-2011, 18:06

On topic. I hope VM decision-makers tap into threads like this. The messages are clear: VM, by all means penalise heavy files-sharing uploaders and downloaders during peak times, but do not penalsise gamers, streamers and tunnelers. If you don't grasp this nettle you will lose custom.

For P2P file-sharers the message is: Please curb your bandwidth hunger until everybody else has gone to bed!! If you don't, we will all suffer.

Off topic. I reckon you can can spot an anally retentive pompous ass just by looking at their avatar.

Ignitionnet · 03-05-2011, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughbeast

On topic. I hope VM decision-makers tap into threads like this. The messages are clear: VM, by all means penalise heavy files-sharing uploaders and downloaders during peak times, but do not penalsise gamers, streamers and tunnelers. If you don't grasp this nettle you will lose custom.

For P2P file-sharers the message is: Please curb your bandwidth hunger until everybody else has gone to bed!! If you don't, we will all suffer.

Off topic. I reckon you can can spot an anally retentive pompous ass just by looking at their avatar.

I agree with the first and second paragraphs. Much of the objections centre around the shaping misfiring rather than its existence. With the increased use of streaming and gaming more people than ever need responsiveness from their internets.

Regarding the third one don't upset Evil Pacman, he'll pop his power pellets and pwn you.

Chrysalis · 03-05-2011, 18:34

well the shaping is here to stay it is very unlikely to be removed now unless VM decide something else will do the same job better. Which is why I am concentrating now on them sorting out the unidentified issue.