A new flood of migrants ?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

A new new flood heading our way



No doubt the French are making it easy for them to leave France.

Now there's a surprise.

A thousand or so people taking William Hague up on his stated objective of affording them a more democratic life by doorstepping him because they can't currently live in their own country.

Originally Posted by Gary L

See what I mean about the usual analysis of ones mental state?

It wasn't about your "mental state", it was about your apparent lack of intelligence/intellectual rigour - your answer confirms my proposition.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Hugh, if only you put as much effort into actually discussing the topic rather than the poster. we'd have a good debate.
I haven't seen much from you in that way. you skip the bits that you can debate on, and choose the parts where you can score points on.

Amusing from someone whose previous replies in this thread to other posters have included in-depth analysis and debate such as

He's off again

Can you shut up for 2 minutes

You don't understand

Originally Posted by Gary L

and is that the 3rd time now you've quoted "I hate Migrants"?
I think everyone heard you the first time.

As stated previously, high on bile, low on content - that was the first time I had quoted your reprehensible statement (previously martyh and Russ had quoted it); but as usual, facts are not your friends....

Originally Posted by Gary L

It just seems to me that if you don't like the 'opposing' view in any subject. you have these inane episodes.

I love having a decent debate, Gary - posters like Osem, Mr Angry, and many others are a pleasure to discuss things with; you, on the other hand, have as much debating ability as an BNP spokesman - garbled propositions, moronic non-sequiturs, and constant rants.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by danielf

Some good points there, (in particular child benefits, which really ought to be paid at a level commensurate with the standard of living in the country where the child lives) but it seems we are (once again) conflating legal migrants, illegal migrants and asylum seekers which all have differing rights (or lack thereof). Anyway, in a nutshell: These forums are awash with posts from people claiming that the UK is a soft touch where every tom, dick and harry can show up and we'll just throw money at them, when the reality is that the benefits system in the UK is pretty basic compared to many countries in continental Europe (as are, I should add the majority of public services). If things were bad economically in my home country, then a life on benefits in the UK definitely wouldn't be my first choice.

What's more, as was linked to earlier, Brits are excessively concerned about immigration compared to European counterparts with higher levels of immigration. Altogether, it's hard to escape the impression of a xenophobic lot of whinging POMs that simply want more for less money. There. I've said it

Which is why the other factors (in addition to just cash/quality) I mentioned about the UK are important and will affect the different categories of migrants (e.g. legal, illegal, EU, Non-EU) in different ways. Great services are of no use to migrants if they're not entitled to them or can't access them easily or at all for one reason or another. They're not of much comfort or interest to the vast numbers of illegals seeking somewhere to go if they know stand a very good chance of being rounded up, refused entry and deported quick smart. The UK's thoroughly shambolic immigration system is still open to huge abuse and it's still taking ages, sometimes years, for the authorities to get round to contesting claims and removing people even when multiple appeals have been exhausted etc. This, coupled with the almost certain knowledge that, if they work the system for as long as possible and manage to marry/have a child, even illegal entrants and bogus asylum seekers will not be removed, must be a major factor in the minds of those intent on coming here illegally and remaining.

Rights and entitlements are a big factor. I believe, for example, the widespread and routine availability of free translation/ESOL/help/housing support services etc. is a factor in drawing migrants here. Our Polish neighbour moved to France two years ago with her husband and children - no translation services available for them so, whilst trying to learn French, which she has to pay for, she has to get by on her English which it seems the people she meets strangely aren't too keen on.. She keeps in touch with us and tells us she feels really quite isolated there but of course nobody would ever claim that'd be down to French xenophobia at all.

I think we all know there's a fare amount of racism here but that's the same virtually everywhere and not to be conflated with having genuine reasoned concerns about mass migration which is after all what we're talking about. Isn't it true that there's plenty of concern about migration in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland etc.? I've travelled and worked abroad a fair bit over the last 30 years and it's certainly evident where I've been in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. According to the many E. Europeans we've known over the years, overt racism (for example against the Roma) is almost endemic and institutional in many places there.

Giving the impression that things in the UK are somehow much worse or harder for migrants than in these other countries (if that's what you're implying) doesn't wash IMHO. If the UK isn't a soft touch and our people and systems are so much more prejudiced than others, why do so many migrants (including large numbers who have no links with the UK and speak no English) go to such extremes to get here (legally or otherwise) and then choose to stay? If it's so arduous here and so much easier for such people to exist happily in France and elsewhere why are there queues of migrants from all over the place waiting just outside the port of Calais?...

Where you'd wish to go is a matter of your personal choice (plus, of course, the immigration rules effective in that country) but the large numbers who've not only come here but remained over the last 10-15 years don't appear to share your view about the UK being a less desireable destination and home to a 'xenophobic lot of whingeing poms'.

[danielf]

Osem: Good points, and I'm definitely not suggesting that there are no concerns about mass immigration throughout Europe. What I am saying is that when you look at the data, the UK does not appear to be overrun by immigrants to a larger extent than comparable European Nations, yet the Brits appear disproportionately concerned. Whether that's a case of xenophobia, pressure on already stretched and underfunded public services or some other genuine concern I don't know, but the difference is quite striking. As it stands, and with knowledge of the state of public services and benefits abroad I'm tempted to take the soft touch stories with a pinch of salt.

For the record: I am an immigrant who's been living here for over 10 years. I'm enjoying it too (otherwise I'd have left). Despite the poor public services...

[Taf]

Originally Posted by danielf

Despite the poor public services...

Which I reckon will get poorer as demand upon them increases due to unplanned and unforseen raised population levels.

"Austerity Measures" have already caused cuts and reduction in services, so things can only get worse unless UK plc wins the EU lottery big time... many times...

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Taf

Which I reckon will get poorer as demand upon them increases due to unplanned and unforseen raised population levels.

I seen a piece on that on the news. they were worried that ethnic minorities would take it personal that their club and stuff might close, and/or that they lose funding.

[adzii_nufc]

There are few parties that offer a solution to all this immigration nonsense and sooner or later something is going to give.

Forgot to add... this is our Government as it stands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13211577 Enjoy

Originally Posted by Gary L

I seen a piece on that on the news. they were worried that ethnic minorities would take it personal that their club and stuff might close, and/or that they lose funding.

They will be in the same boat as everyone else, then.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They will be in the same boat as everyone else, then.

I know. it was the way they reported it as we hope it doesn't happen because we've got to tell them that it's not personal when it does.

The media always make an issue out of everything that isn't actually an issue.

Hadn't seen that report.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Hadn't seen that report.

You wouldn't have. it was on my local news.

I was in Oxford a couple of weeks ago - I might have.

[Gary L]

It would have been cool if you did when I don't live anywhere near Oxford.

[danielf]

I'm not surprised...

[Gary L]

You're weird.