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[Ignitionnet]

mertle, your post is indeed not funny.

In a hurry but one obvious point, wanting people to 'die at work' is nonsense, life expectancy has increased dramatically and the UK, along with its peers, has to make allowances for this in order to try and keep pension costs sustainable.

It's especially an issue for the UK as some idiots decided that people didn't need to save for their pensions and current tax payers would pick up the tab, which is great as the baby boomers retire.

[Chrysalis]

One problem is that of course some people live so tight that they simply cannot afford a pension. Any system that would be brought in would have the state paying for the poor still.

It is worth mentioning that NI tax income exceeds pensions out costs as well as IB costs, the budgets it is supposed to fund. The issue is most likely the government want to use NI tax income for other things

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

mertle, your post is indeed not funny.

In a hurry but one obvious point, wanting people to 'die at work' is nonsense, life expectancy has increased dramatically and the UK, along with its peers, has to make allowances for this in order to try and keep pension costs sustainable.

It's especially an issue for the UK as some idiots decided that people didn't need to save for their pensions and current tax payers would pick up the tab, which is great as the baby boomers retire.

Its not to be funny thats MY FEAR this policy will do. Flog people at that age. Not everybody fit and healthy why should'nt people have a right to retire and enjoy relaxed while they can do something from 60.

Whether its state funded pension or private funded by businesses its one of the craziest moves of this government to expect people to work hard at that age. Pensions issue not just down to ignorant of not saving. City people abused it by speculating wildly causing it to lose money. Plus there was corruption in pensions few years back its not peoples fault. Also as peoples wages shrunk in real terms more and more finding less FUNDS to even contemplate it.

Squeeze pay causes knock-ons.

If the retirement was actually reduced it opens up loads jobs to fill surely CHURN more important to get people in work.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

If it wasnt so serious I would laugh at the thought of the private sector creating so many jobs, but I wont laugh as it is very serious.

It may have escaped you but the private sector already creates and maintains the vast majority of jobs and the wealth which provides the revenue necessary to run the public sector. Of course they can't create these jobs overnight but one thing's for sure, crippling private enterprise with the bill for a bloated public sector and massive debt doesn't help them create more jobs or pay more tax to run the NHS etc. does it. It's not a choice you know, we can't simply choose to avoid economic reality like some people try to avoid paying their debts by moving them around. If that was possible don't you think the Irish, the Greeks and the Portuguese would have taken that route? Chosen not to go bust? Chosen just to carry on borrowing from international investors who're quite happy to throw good money after bad? I mean it's by far the easier option isn't it or do you think they too are obssessed with that well known Tory ideal of grinding the poor into the dust and this is all a bit of spiteful fun for them?...

[Chrysalis]

it hasnt escaped me but it also hasnt escaped me it is in terminal decline as well as over crowding themselves in limited parts of the country.

you dont see the flaw in that cutting taxes is not going to do much for job creation? the problem is much wider and that is inflation needs to be dealt with as a much bigger priority as that determines costs more than anything.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

One problem is that of course some people live so tight that they simply cannot afford a pension. Any system that would be brought in would have the state paying for the poor still.

It is worth mentioning that NI tax income exceeds pensions out costs as well as IB costs, the budgets it is supposed to fund. The issue is most likely the government want to use NI tax income for other things

The stats show otherwise.... Link

On pages 95 and 96 of the this year's budget, NI income is shown as £96.5 billion and Social Security Benefits expenditure as £169 billion.

[Chrysalis]

did I say social security benefits?

I said pensions and IB. Not child benefit, housing benefit and the rest.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

did I say social security benefits?

I said pensions and IB. Not child benefit, housing benefit and the rest.

No, but you did suggest that the surplus was an indication of the government's intentions, which it is not. There is a suplus every year, and it is growing. A chunk of the surplus is loaned to the Government and paid back with interest. This is not a Tory (or, indeed, a Coalition) invention.

You also referred to it as 'NI tax', which it most plainly isn't; it is operated and held in an entirely different way than general taxation.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

did I say social security benefits?

I said pensions and IB. Not child benefit, housing benefit and the rest.

National Insurance contributions count towards the following state benefits:
the basic State Pension
the additional State Pension, sometimes called the State Second Pension
Jobseeker's Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
Employment and Support Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
Maternity Allowance
bereavement benefits - Bereavement Allowance, Bereavement Payment and Widowed Parent's Allowance
Incapacity Benefit

The dependent contributions aside NI is just another tax, in order to compensate for loss of NI revenue to the general tax pool other taxes would have to be increased.

EDIT: As a reminder there are other benefits available to pensioners, and indeed a number that just draw the basic state pension will be topped up in some way via welfare. It would be interesting to see those figures actually.

Lastly NI also partly funds the NHS and is the fund used to pay SSP.

[Ignitionnet]

Oh look. Looks as though Duncan Weldon / False Economy were engaging in some quite selective quoting of figures, along with a not inconsiderable amount of extrapolation. To the extent where the OBR have released figures clarifying.

Looks as though the anticuts group's economist's £245 billion is actually £17 billion. Oops.

I was expecting such unbiased content from a group devoted to showing that spending cuts are a 'false economy' too.