[update] UK economy grows in Q1 2011

Hezza, you're grasping. You really are. North Ayrshire is not going to implement a four day week for its schools. Nobody is asking for the idea to be unthought; I am simply pointing out that when you consider all of the evidence emerging from North Ayrshire Council, your conclusion that it is a 'potential ramaification' is not justified. Attempting to justify it with cod philosophy will convince nobody but those who were already convinced by your original comments on the matter.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by hezzabell

Ah yes, but i did say "potential" ramification.

It is intersting that you have decided to label me as "socialist". I don't believe i mentioned any political preference, and indeed, if you check my post you will see that i am equally critical of all parties.
The crux of the matter is that the economy is subject to continual readjustments according to the political perversities of whoever is in charge at the time and yet capitalism exists to a large extent outside the capabilities of politicians. This is fundamentalist capitalism.
As to the vexing question of taxation - nobody likes paying taxes but if your taxes are funding sociaty as a whole then we all benefit, when your taxes are subsidising capitalism then only the few benefit.

I described you as such because you were and are advocating a state controlled and based economy.

I am likewise equally critical of all political parties now, because they're all hopeless

We're a very long way outside of fundamental capitalism, fundamental capitalism would have allowed the banks to fail, not socialised their failure.

Agreed regarding corporate welfare, just disagree about where the money should go. My opinion is that it should stay where it is so that people can spend it as they choose not be siphoned off in tax for the state to spend. That's a kind of corporate welfare too.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That's nonsense. I know of virtually no-one who has received above-inflation pay rise and the only ones that come to mind are unionised. I have no idea where this comes from but there is no magical dividing line where pay settlements mysteriously get better even within the same company once one goes south of Watford.

There's no way people would tolerate a pay freeze for years on end, unprecedented.

bundles of claims from tbb who claim uk pay rises have been high the past decade

so your experience is the same as mine then with minimal wage rises?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

bundles of claims from tbb who claim uk pay rises have been high the past decade

so your experience is the same as mine then with minimal wage rises?

They have been keeping pace with inflation or slightly above for the past decade, only in the last year or two have the brakes been put on.

Incidentally I've lived in London, the South, the Southern part of the Midlands and the West Midlands and my experience has been much the same in all of them.

If this is another one of those cases where Leicester is some sort of anomaly compared with most of the rest of the UK so be it.

I'm not talking about real wage increases that would take account of inflation incidentally. When I mentioned wage freezes I meant actual, not real. There is no reason why wages should go up by more than inflation unless unemployment is extremely low and labour market conditions allow it, which is something specific to certain occupations and skill sets.

EDIT: I think a point has been illustrated though - describing a wage increase that merely keeps wages the same in real terms as 'minimal' as if people are entitled to a real terms wage increase every year regardless of the circumstances.

[Chrysalis]

I use that term because I believe official inflation figures to be below real inflation, the first reason for that is there is a 2nd inflation figure which is higher which includes housing costs, so wage increases are based on a inflation figure that excludes housing costs, the 2nd reason is the games played to shuffle goods around in the algorithm so things that go up a lot in price arent used so the official inflation appears lower.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I use that term because I believe official inflation figures to be below real inflation, the first reason for that is there is a 2nd inflation figure which is higher which includes housing costs, so wage increases are based on a inflation figure that excludes housing costs, the 2nd reason is the games played to shuffle goods around in the algorithm so things that go up a lot in price arent used so the official inflation appears lower.

It is what it is, it may not be perfect but it's a standard. Wage inflation contributes to real inflation too, use the wrong measure carelessly and you push inflation up in every measure.

Inflation is very, very, very bad.

[Digital Fanatic]

Looks like it was even worse....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12577154

The UK economy shrank by more than previously thought during the last three months of 2010, revised figures show.

Gross domestic product (GDP) slipped by 0.6% in the period, according to fresh data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

Its initial estimate had suggested the economy had contracted by 0.5% - with heavy snow blamed for the slump.

It wasn't a bad dream. The recovery really did stall in the final three months of 2010, and it wasn't only the weather. That is the most important conclusion to be drawn from today's second round of GDP estimates for the fourth quarter”
End Quote
Stephanie Flanders

Economics editor, BBC News

[Ignitionnet]

No real surprise there - we'll see if this is repeated this quarter.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

No real surprise there - we'll see if this is repeated this quarter.

Yeah, will be interesting to see what effect the VAT rise produces.

[Ignitionnet]

Probably be hidden by deferred spending to be honest. Loads of people spending the money they couldn't over Christmas just before the VAT rise kicked in - remember it didn't kick in on the 1st of January.

[Chrysalis]

what do you buy on a regular basis that has VAT on it? I know services do but I mean stuff from shops.

[Flyboy]

Petrol, clothes, some foods and fruit juices etc.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

No real surprise there - we'll see if this is repeated this quarter.

It wasn't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13206430

The UK economy grew by 0.5% in the first three months of the year.

The Office for National Statistics' (ONS) first estimate of economic activity shows a recovery from the 0.5% contraction recorded for the last three months of 2010.

[Ignitionnet]

It's good news indeed. Shows how robust the UK economy's private sector is despite the mismanagement of it by Osborne and the other 'Liberal Conservatives'.

---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

Incidentally I say it is good news because there are many underlying positives. Not that these will be noticed by the kind of people who post things like:

Hardly a ringing endorsement of the health of the economy. Basically the economy has sat still since September, whilst inflation has carried forward at over 4%.

When of course GDP growth is expressed in real terms - inflation is in itself a GDP increaser so a 4% increase in prices across the board with nothing else changing is, obviously, a 4% increase in nominal GDP as the value of all goods and services produced has gone up by that 4%, or more correctly the value of money has gone down by the requisite amount.

[Flyboy]

But, according to those figures, the economy has stood still. Where is that statement incorrect?