Please help clarify - Newsgroups on port 443 - throttled?

realevil · 10-12-2010, 19:34

Hi,

I pay $10 a month for a fast SSL usenetserver connection. I want to get faster internet (with 02 now which I like but I tend do download lots of stuff for work and do a bit of newsgroup downloads).

I specify port 443 now and get about 2MB/s on my 19Mb connection.

If I join Virgin do they throttle newsgroup downloads on 443? Some people suggest that it throttled others say it is not.

Rik · 10-12-2010, 19:38

Not at the moment, well at least not in my area (Herts) I get 6MB/s no problem on 443.

Port 443 as well as others are not throttled like 563 and 119 are.

I guess once VM wise up tho, they will throttle these ports as well. Lets hope not tho.

Im with Astra btw.

realevil · 10-12-2010, 19:41

Thats a relief (for a while at least).

Can an ISP legally inspect SSL traffic?

Rik · 10-12-2010, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by realevil

Thats a relief (for a while at least).

Can an ISP legally inspect SSL traffic?

They wouldnt need to inspect SSL traffic if you are wondering about throttling, it would be quite easy to see us all connecting with 10 or 20 ports to giganews.com or astraweb etc etc and throttle certain IP ranges and addresses.

Not sure how intelligent the kit is, but im sure they could implement that type of throttling if they really wanted to.

They could quite easily throttle all traffic on port 443 as well like the other ports if they wanted to.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by realevil

Thats a relief (for a while at least).

Can an ISP legally inspect SSL traffic?

AFAIK they cannot decrypt SSL traffic, but im no expert in that field, what with the legalities involved etc.

But as I say above it wouldnt take a genius to work out what you were connecting to, with 20 ssl connections to news.giganews.com

Chrysalis · 10-12-2010, 21:21

VM have legal ramifications if they throttle port 443.

they currently claim to only pick on torrents and newsgroups, if 443 gets hit they will have to adjust that claim.

Ignitionnet · 10-12-2010, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

VM have legal ramifications if they throttle port 443.

they currently claim to only pick on torrents and newsgroups, if 443 gets hit they will have to adjust that claim.

They can throttle Usenet with abandon by source.

Chrysalis · 10-12-2010, 22:03

I am not talking about throttling by src ip. or similiar.

but specifically targeting that port, if they get it wrong then they will be throttling https.

Ignitionnet · 11-12-2010, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I am not talking about throttling by src ip. or similiar.

but specifically targeting that port, if they get it wrong then they will be throttling https.

Zero legal ramification to that, thoroughly annoy people but zero ramification.

Sirius · 11-12-2010, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Zero legal ramification to that, thoroughly annoy people but zero ramification.

They could potentially loss any customer that has problems using secure banking, Secure email in fact anything where the customer needs security for money transactions or to stop there traffic being snooped on by overzealous DPI kit . At the moment i can confirm my traffic on 443 and also the ssl traffic i have on port 80 is not affected.

Ignitionnet · 11-12-2010, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

They could potentially loss any customer that has problems using secure banking, Secure email in fact anything where the customer needs security for money transactions or to stop there traffic being snooped on by overzealous DPI kit . At the moment i can confirm my traffic on 443 and also the ssl traffic i have on port 80 is not affected.

Yep thoroughly annoy people.

That whoever configured the stuff hasn't noted the rather odd amount of SSL going to/from the news servers is puzzling, or they have and aren't too bothered by it.

Although these are the same people who didn't notice World of Warcraft traffic disappear and unidentified traffic go up by a similar amount, so who knows

I'd be shaping anything that isn't HTTP riding port 80 as unidentified as it's clearly something trying to avoid detection and nothing apart from HTTP has any business on that port, I'm harsh like that

Sirius · 11-12-2010, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yep thoroughly annoy people.

That whoever configured the stuff hasn't noted the rather odd amount of SSL going to/from the news servers is puzzling, or they have and aren't too bothered by it.

Although these are the same people who didn't notice World of Warcraft traffic disappear and unidentified traffic go up by a similar amount, so who knows

Good point.

And that's why i don't trust isp's with DPI, How do we know its configured correctly by those that configure it when they can make such a massive mistake as blocking one of the biggest online games and then only realise because there customers told them about the mistake.

Chrysalis · 11-12-2010, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Zero legal ramification to that, thoroughly annoy people but zero ramification.

so you saying claiming that to only shape p2p and newsgroups and then throttle https traffic has no legal ramification?

just making sure I understand you correct before commenting further.

Juo · 11-12-2010, 11:43

I have been getting throttled in area 21 connected to the Lewisham exchange, this only happens when I am connected to usenet via SSL, if I change to port 8080 and turn off SSL the problem goes away.

Ignitionnet · 11-12-2010, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

so you saying claiming that to only shape p2p and newsgroups and then throttle https traffic has no legal ramification?

just making sure I understand you correct before commenting further.

Correct. I suspect they'd get away with it on the grounds that the majority of SSL traffic, by volume, is probably going to be newsgroups.

I'm not even sure if misfiring or misconfigured DPI is covered by anything after all traffic that can't be identified is throttled which will inevitably encompass things other than P2P / newsgroups.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Good point.

And that's why i don't trust isp's with DPI, How do we know its configured correctly by those that configure it when they can make such a massive mistake as blocking one of the biggest online games and then only realise because there customers told them about the mistake.

DPI is something that needs to be done with a lot of care and managed very closely. I know of a guy at an ISP somewhat smaller than Virgin, DPI was all he did.