Unemployed could be forced to do compulsory manual labour

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by punky

...Another one for the ignore list.

Sadly, exactly as predicted "..... your next attempt at avoidance of the facts by denial".

Still, I suppose expecting rational debate - or any form of logic - from someone whose original stance on a matter amounted to

Originally Posted by punky

I'm forced to work, why shouldn't everyone else be too?

I'd like to sit on my arse all day earning a nice wage through benefits with a free house but unfortunately I have to work instead.

was always going to be a bit of a stretch.

Good luck with the tunnel vision / blinkers.

[Gary L]

Thought of the day.

How much will they save by putting a million public service workers on the dole, and putting a million dole slaves in their place?

Not that simple (surprise) - as the "million dole slaves" (could you be any more negatively emotive?) who are only proposed to whatever they are going to do for thirty days, probably wouldn't have the skill sets to learn and do the "million public servants" jobs in that short time (or even longer).

btw, thank you for your earlier answers to my request for clarification - they were as informative and as precise as I expected.

[chris9991]

Will this scheme take work away from the community service that criminals would be expected to undertake? Or are the long term unemployed going to have to work alongside the criminals?

[Pierre]

All I can say is at least this government are prepared to try things to get people back to work.

I know, personally, several people that have got full time work through undertaking voluntary work whilst they were unemployed.

The fact they had done this work showed that they had a work ethic and weren't happy to sit on their backsides expecting the government to wipe their arse for them.

It also gave them valuable experience and it gave then something to put on their CV.

There will of course be caveats to this idea involving the disabled and people with other challenges but on the whole, as an idea worth persuing, I think it's a good one.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by chris9991

Will this scheme take work away from the community service that criminals would be expected to undertake? Or are the long term unemployed going to have to work alongside the criminals?

That does raise another issue.. Community service orders.. Will these scheme be compared to them and also will they mix the participants??

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by chris9991

Will this scheme take work away from the community service that criminals would be expected to undertake? Or are the long term unemployed going to have to work alongside the criminals?

One will be cutting the grass and sweeping the streets as a way of saying sorry for being a thief, and the other will be cutting the grass and sweeping the streets as a way of saying sorry for being unemployed but I'm using skills and getting used to what it's like to work.

They could always put a sign up so us passers by know which group they are.

[chris9991]

According to the front page of The Times this morning (I would link but it's behind a paywall)

Private providers would organise the 30-hour-a-week placements with charities, voluntary organisations, local authorities or companies. The work could be similar to community sentences handed down by courts but there would not necessarily be the same emphasis on physical labour.

The cartoon on page 27 also sums it up

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by chris9991

According to the front page of The Times this morning (I would link but it's behind a paywall)

The cartoon on page 27 also sums it up

The word that stands out here is:

Private providers would organise the 30-hour-a-week placements with charities, voluntary organisations, local authorities or companies. The work could be similar to community sentences handed down by courts but there would not necessarily be the same emphasis on physical labour.

Which means they don't know, so why not wait until the full details of the plan are released before all going off one.

This leads me onto the way news is delivered nowadays.

The BBC being the worse cuprits in my eyes.

I'm sick of watching news reports with the words, could, might, potentially, etc in them.

As soon as hear or read a report with the word "could" I know instantly that it is nothing more than speculation, and speculation is not news.

BBC Breakfast might as well be rebranded as Breakfast gossip for the amount of factual reports we actually get.

Rant over.

Originally Posted by Pierre

The word that stands out here is:



Which means they don't know, so why not wait until the full details of the plan are released before all going off one.

This leads me onto the way news is delivered nowadays.

The BBC being the worse cuprits in my eyes.

I'm sick of watching news reports with the words, could, might, potentially, etc in them.

As soon as hear or read a report with the word "could" I know instantly that it is nothing more than speculation, and speculation is not news.

BBC Breakfast might as well be rebranded as Breakfast gossip for the amount of factual reports we actually get.

Rant over.

I agree ,in this thread we have had histeria galore ,from slavery to working with criminals wearing orange overalls ,to wheeling out the terminally ill ,it's amazing how many conclusions can be jumped to at the same time

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by chris9991

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765

It looks like the government is trying to reintroduce indentured servitude

If you don't do the work, you won't get any benefits. If people have to do this work surely its taking a job away from an employed person? Or are they going to take it from the community service of criminals?

This country treats benefit claimants worse than criminals now.

How they going to deal with the problem they breaching min wage.

£65 for 30 hours work.

1 - why is it only manual work, not office work etc.
2 - what happens if they have job interviews or other work related activity during these hours.
3 - is it better than slavery where slavery typically gave you a place to sleep, food, drink etc.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

yes i daresay they will have to be supervised ..by the same supervisors who already supervise rubbish collectors ,what about the people who already do these jobs ? do you think that they are all going to be sacked ?all it will mean is there will be more litter pickers ,more graffiti will get cleaned and more council gardens will get dug ,i realy can't understand peoples objections .As long as we don't stigmatise ALL unemployed people i don't have a problem with this at all

I have a big problem with it as its breaking the min wage laws. Also this is just the first step, they will extend this later on, to shorter term claimaints as well. Also people will have to travel of course they will, do you really think they will say ok clean your street for 8 hours and then go home unsupervised. So sounds like they repeating what thatcher did, leopard doesnt really change its spots. Except back then thatcher didnt have a min wage law to honour.

Originally Posted by chris9991

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765

It looks like the government is trying to reintroduce indentured servitude

If you don't do the work, you won't get any benefits. If people have to do this work surely its taking a job away from an employed person? Or are they going to take it from the community service of criminals?

Whilst this proposal has major flaws, I think that comparing it with indentured servitude is a little over the top - indentured servitude was for three to seven years, often working twelve to fifteen hours a day; comparing this to a month, doing something for four or five days a week, for between six to hours a day, only weakens more cogent counter-arguments by association, imho.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

This country treats benefit claimants worse than criminals now.

How they going to deal with the problem they breaching min wage.

£65 for 30 hours work.

1 - why is it only manual work, not office work etc.
2 - what happens if they have job interviews or other work related activity during these hours.
3 - is it better than slavery where slavery typically gave you a place to sleep, food, drink etc.

oooooh look more histeria ,

actually it's £65+HB(if living away from home)+council tax benefit +free prescriptions +ect ect

1) the gov hasn't said exactly what type of work yet
2) i would imagine that they would be allowed to go to the interview ,i think that's kinda the point realy
3)not worth answering as the question is ridiculous

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I suspect that the idea of this is to make proper paid work more appealing than the unpaid option. Get the long term unemployed (who have no intention of working) off their arses and into work.....

Then make the paid work higher paid, well doh!

I know a few who wont work ever!!. They lost their dole and they still dont work. These are what you called lost causes and legit claimants shouldnt be treated illegaly for this small minority of people. With whats happening now we will get long term legit claimants 100s of thousands of them at the minimum.

The truth is this coalition is managing to cut money by getting people to do council work for £2 an hour.

Self serving people support the idea as they know the alternative is their taxes go up.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Look at it this way Gary ,the welfare system is rapidly aproaching the 200 billion mark ,we have to controll this figure and if that means people will no longer get free money for an indefinate period then tough ,if people think that being asked to clean up their own communities ,dig a few gardens for old folk ,or mow the roadside verges in your area (i seem to remember that you were quite indignant that your LA had stopped doing this because of lack of funds) is being exploited ,then tough ,i suspect that it is their own fear of losing the free ride they have been on for the last 10 years or so that makes people think like that .
Having said that ,if this policy does come to fruition,i strongly suspect that the devoutly workshy will find a way around it ,after all they have managed to work the system to their benefit for years ,and i daresay that some will continue to do it

you realise the biggest chunk is pensions right?
the 2nd biggest chunk is child related benefits.
neither are to do with these changes.

unemployment benefits even including incapacity benefit is not even 10% of that figure.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

oooooh look more histeria ,

actually it's £65+HB(if living away from home)+council tax benefit +free prescriptions +ect ect

1) the gov hasn't said exactly what type of work yet
2) i would imagine that they would be allowed to go to the interview ,i think that's kinda the point realy
3)not worth answering as the question is ridiculous

#3 isnt ridicolous but does show you dont really care of the consequences as it isnt you right.

#1 manual labour quoted numerous times.
#2 you can imagine what you want.

and no its just £65, if they refuse to do it, they lose the £65 but dont lose the rest.

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

absolute rubbish gary ,claiming benefits is most definitely not a right ,it is a privelidge born of a caring society

its a right when you pay NI and then want to claim contribution based benefits.

the rest is also a right because its declared so in law.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Then make the paid work higher paid, well doh!

I know a few who wont work ever!!. They lost their dole and they still dont work. These are what you called lost causes and legit claimants shouldnt be treated illegaly for this small minority of people. With whats happening now we will get long term legit claimants 100s of thousands of them at the minimum.

The truth is this coalition is managing to cut money by getting people to do council work for £2 an hour.

Self serving people support the idea as they know the alternative is their taxes go up.

well i don't want my taxes to go up to support people who don't want to work ,and i wouldn't say i'm self serving ,i would however support my taxes going up if it guaranteed a better road network ,better public transport ,better health care ,better pensions ect.
What you fail to realise is that being on the dole is only supposed to be temporary (allowing for varying job market circumstances)it is not meant to be a way of life ,the government are attempting to make being on the dole unapealing so as to encourage people to try to find work ,most claimants are happy to play ball they will not by and large be affected by the new proposals the ones who seek to live a cosy cushy life on the dole will and about bloody time too i say