Police in training for 'Mumbai-style' gun attack in UK

[Gary L]

UK security chiefs have ordered an acceleration in police training to prepare for any future "Mumbai-style" gun attack in a public place.

A series of counter-terrorism exercises are being held with police marksmen training alongside units of the SAS.

Police armed response units are also being given more powerful weapons.

The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner said there was no indication that such an attack was imminent in the UK.

Last month intelligence sources said they had uncovered the early stages of an al-Qaeda plot to carry out co-ordinated attacks in the UK, France and Germany.

Suspects were planning to copy the 2008 attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai, where 10 gunmen went on a three-day rampage, killing 166 people and injuring more than 300, the sources said.

Our correspondent said the UK authorities had been planning for such an attack ever since Mumbai happened.

I won't be going to the olympics. if I had a guess on which is most likely to be hit first. I'd say France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11622218

Nothing new - we planned/trained for civil insurrection/terrorist attacks in the 70's and 80s.

Just the Security Chiefs raising their profile to show how they need additional funds - remember, kiddies, fear means funds.....

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I won't be going to the olympics. if I had a guess on which is most likely to be hit first. I'd say France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11622218

Of course if I was a crazed jihadi with a machine gun and the choice of places to shoot up would I choose

1. The UK. Mostly unarmed Police with the Guardian and Sky news on the sidelines to endlessly ask if the nutter with the gun really, really needed shot
2. France with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire
3. Spain with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire
4. Italy with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire

Shamelessly stolen from Inspector Gadget but assuming any suicide attacker has an ounce of common sense they won't want to be taken out by a lucky shot from a nearby cop.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Derek

Of course if I was a crazed jihadi with a machine gun and the choice of places to shoot up would I choose

1. The UK. Mostly unarmed Police with the Guardian and Sky news on the sidelines to endlessly ask if the nutter with the gun really, really needed shot
2. France with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire
3. Spain with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire
4. Italy with it's mostly armed Police who can return fire

Shamelessly stolen from Inspector Gadget but assuming any suicide attacker has an ounce of common sense they won't want to be taken out by a lucky shot from a nearby cop.

Rather inconveniently for the inspector the EU report on terrorist activity (specific to jihadists) for 2009 suggests that Italy was the jihadist favourite with one attack taking place in that year.

Jihadists aside it appears from the report that the separatists active in either France or Spain are none too concerned / dissuaded by the presence of armed police forces.

An armed police force that can return fire isn't always the answer when it comes to deterrents. In fact, historically, more often than not, they prove to be better "legitimate" targets in the eyes of some terrorist organisations trying to sell their ideals to an otherwise uninterested public.

[Hom3r]

The Nazi's failed to defeat us.

The IRA failed to defeat us

So a few P***pot terrorists won't even get close.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

The Nazi's failed to defeat us.

The IRA failed to defeat us

So a few P***pot terrorists won't even get close.

That'll stop them dead in their tracks. You should work in an advisory capacity to COBRA.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

An armed police force that can return fire isn't always the answer when it comes to deterrents. In fact, historically, more often than not, they prove to be better "legitimate" targets in the eyes of some terrorist organisations trying to sell their ideals to an otherwise uninterested public.

It doesn't change the fact that *if* there was something remotely resembling the Mumbai attacks in the UK say in the run up to Christmas the death toll would be absolutely horrific.

Derrick Bird was a lone nutter, probably drunk, with a small calibre rifle and shotgun. The Police got to him very quickly and had to watch as he killed a number of people as they couldn't return fire.

A team of shooters with even basic military training and automatic weapons loose on the streets of London, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh etc. knowing they have very little chance of the Police returning fire is not a pleasant thought.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Derek

It doesn't change the fact that *if* there was something remotely resembling the Mumbai attacks in the UK say in the run up to Christmas the death toll would be absolutely horrific.

Derrick Bird was a lone nutter, probably drunk, with a small calibre rifle and shotgun. The Police got to him very quickly and had to watch as he killed a number of people as they couldn't return fire.

A team of shooters with even basic military training and automatic weapons loose on the streets of London, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh etc. knowing they have very little chance of the Police returning fire is not a pleasant thought.

That is as may be Derek but the facts still stand that armed police do not represent much of a deterrent to the determined terrorist - especially those driven by martyrdom.

The statistics, together with the life experiences of anyone who lived through such scenarios attest to the fact.

[Gary L]

POLICE armed response vehicles are patrolling 24 hours-a-day around Birmingham after intelligence chiefs warned of a Mumbai-style terror attack on the city.
The West Midlands force has DOUBLED the number of armed officers in the city, TREBLED the armed vehicles on patrol and deployed specialist marksmen trained to carry out “head shots” on terrorist gunmen.
The move comes after a Birmingham man was killed in the Al Qaeda heartland of North West Pakistan last month, leading to fears that he was at the centre of a terror cell intent on copying the Mumbai attacks by targeting hotels in European cities.

The UK’s terror threat level remains at “severe”, the second highest rating, where it has been since January.
Chillingly, our police source said the threat to Birmingham could come from INSIDE the city.
And he warned that the decision to remove CCTV cameras from Washwood Heath and Sparkbrook following an outcry from local residents had hampered efforts to trace suspected extremists.
“The counter terrorism officers have got a major problem trying to gather evidence against suspects,” he said.
“That’s always a difficult job, but it’s been made twice as hard by all this nonsense over the CCTV cameras. They could have really made a difference in tracing extremists.”
The cameras were mothballed in June after it was revealed that funding for the £3 million scheme, which formed a surveillance “ring of steel” around the mainly Islamic communities of Sparkbrook, Washwood Heath and Alum Rock, had come from a national counter-terrorism grant, rather than from West Midlands Police’s regular budget.
Last month, the Sunday Mercury revealed that four of the 12 most dangerous terror suspects in Britain are living in the Midlands.

Someone's going to feel really silly if any terrorist activity develops from where they gave in to the demands of switching off the CCTV.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/b...19-27574768/2/

[Chrysalis]

I got no issue with cctv on the streets.

[Derek]

A bit of a bump for this thread with this little titbit of information.

The number of authorised police firearms officers in England and Wales has fallen over the past five years, new figures show.

In 2009 there were at least 5,746 authorised firearms officers, while in 2014 that number has dropped to 4,986 - a reduction of 760.

The greatest fall in authorised police firearms officers has been seen at the Met, where 752 posts have been lost; down from 2,897 in 2009 to 2,145 this year.

2 and bit thousand AFO's for England and Wales (outside London). Split over 4 or 5 shifts, some on sick or annual leave, some office based. Not a lot if something needing a firearms response is needed.

http://www.policeoracle.com/news/Uni...ats_86303.html

TBH I'd rather our police weren't called on for SWAT-type incidents. Let them deal with the occasional armed and dangerous nut job holed up in a south London flat, or roaming the countryside with a shotgun. For Mumbai-type incidents we really ought to be just picking up the phone to Hereford.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chris

For Mumbai-type incidents we really ought to be just picking up the phone to Hereford.

And the journey time from Hereford to say the trafford centre, silverburn, metro centre of the Royal mile is?

Derrick Bird had two weapons and was an active shooter in the countryside For two hours and killed 12 people. If a serious active shooter incident occurs in a busy area should we just write off anyone caught up in it till the boys in black appear?

Originally Posted by Derek

And the journey time from Hereford to say the trafford centre, silverburn, metro centre of the Royal mile is?

Derrick Bird had two weapons and was an active shooter in the countryside For two hours and killed 12 people. If a serious active shooter incident occurs in a busy area should we just write off anyone caught up in it till the boys in black appear?

Realistically, how many more armed police squads would we need in order to have one on scene, anywhere, at any time, in under an hour?

IIRC the Hereford boys are air-mobile, so it's not likely they're going to get snarled up on the M6 while someone hoses down Shopping City.

[Taf]

How long do you think it would take them to receive permission to be deployed? If there was a civil servant in the chain of command I reckon it would take a tad too long to be of any use.

The vile cowards who would make one of these attacks are probably taking that into account. The possibility of an immediate presence of an armed response would make if difficult for them to murder and then fade back into the background.