Modernist Muslims and family honour.

Gary L · 24-10-2010, 12:02

Quote:

"I took off my hijab, and I threw it on the floor and my brother got really mad. It's the worst thing I could have done to offend my religion, aside from burn or tear the Koran.

"My mother, she kind of stood still, and started listening, and it was very liberating that she finally wanted to hear what I had to say.

"I told her about my sexuality and I said 'that's right, I do meet girls, and I love it' and I told her that she had been hurting me really badly, and I will never forgive her."

Now 20, Reviva - not her real name - recounts the day she finally came out to her family, her pupils flash and the flat, matter-of-fact delivery of her story-telling becomes briefly animated.

This, you realise, is the pivotal moment in a disturbing journey of self-discovery which encompasses family estrangement, exorcism, and attempted suicide.

Like hundreds of young men and women in Britain, Reviva was forced into marriage in spite of her sexual orientation, and still carries deep psychological scars from years of torment at the hands of her parents.

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Aware that her parents had deep religious and cultural objections to homosexuality, Reviva gently tried to make them aware of her situation, but was quickly rebuffed:

"I tried to introduce it to them, because I knew it was a thing you don't talk about. It's forbidden. But once you mention 'homosexual' the discussion is over. You can't go into detail about it."

Far from accepting the situation, Reviva's parents set up weekly meetings with eligible bachelors - and reacted with violence when their teenage daughter refused to play along.

"The worst thing they tried was burning my hand on the stove. Anything they could grab, they'd hit you until you'd sort of pass out.

"They always tried to hit me where it couldn't be seen, to hide the scars. Because don't forget I was meant to get married, so I was meant to have skin that isn't damaged."

Reviva says she attempted suicide several times, knowing that she could never satisfy her parents, for whom she reserves an unmistakable venom.

While she understands the roots of their traditional views, her simmering anger betrays the belief that when all is said and done, her home should have been a refuge - not a place of emotional torture.

Should we as a society support people like this girl? modernist muslims, who have grown up in this country and have their own thoughts and feelings?

or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

papa smurf · 24-10-2010, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Should we as a society support people like this girl? modernist muslims, who have grown up in this country and have their own thoughts and feelings?

or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

we as a society should accept that everyone has the right to be loved and to find love and it should not matter what a persons sexuality is .
that said i think its an uphill struggle, some people/religions have traditional views that will probably never change ,all we can do is try to make them see that its still their son/daughter/brother /sister and try to get them to support them rather than vilify them.

24-10-2010, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Should we as a society support people like this girl? modernist muslims, who have grown up in this country and have their own thoughts and feelings?

or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

we already have help in place to help such people ,the problem is that some muslims are so insular they will not allow others to help, they see it as interfering with their way of life .We should imo try to encourage such children as in your example to come forward because after all treatment like that is illegal in this country and if we prosecuted the parents more then maybe it would lessen

**Hugh** · 24-10-2010, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Should we as a society support people like this girl? modernist muslims, who have grown up in this country and have their own thoughts and feelings?

or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

Any evidence to support that statement, Gary, as the evidence (easily found) would seem to show otherwise?

LGBT Forced Marriage Government information

FCO Forced Marriage Special Unit website

Tezcatlipoca · 24-10-2010, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Any evidence to support that statement, Gary, as the evidence (easily found) would seem to show otherwise?

LGBT Forced Marriage Government information

FCO Forced Marriage Special Unit website

Indeed. In fact, Gary's original link mentioned the government's Forced Marriage Unit (FMU), so quite where "or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?" came from I'm not sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

The government's Forced Marriage Unit (FMU) has received hundreds of calls from young gay men and women - mainly men - who fear they are going to be forced into marriage by their family, against their will.

This year, the FMU has dealt with 29 confirmed cases of forced marriage involving gay men and women. Last year, the unit offered support and advice to nearly 1,700 cases in total.

Pierre · 24-10-2010, 14:34

It's the weekly Muslim thread.

Thanks anyway, but I wont be participating this week.

Gary L · 24-10-2010, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

It's the weekly Muslim thread.

Thanks anyway, but I wont be participating this week.

Oh please don't start the taboo thing again.

I'm sure Reviva would thank you for not being concerned for her and others like her. and I'm sure she and they would be sorry that you are offended of her plight.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

Indeed. In fact, Gary's original link mentioned the government's Forced Marriage Unit (FMU), so quite where "or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?" came from I'm not sure.

I know it's there.

We are talking forced marriages, not arranged marriages.
which in this country are not justified by religious or cultural beliefs.

The help they get is a refuge. if that's not available they have to register on the housing list. the application would be homeless due to domestic violence.

the help they receive is to take them away from the family environment. they have to cut ties with the family.

educate the parents and the family that this is not acceptable in this country? educate the child to report it when it all kicks off?

or pick up on little things and make an issue out of that instead of the issue in hand.

**Hugh** · 24-10-2010, 15:27

Gary, you still haven't justified your statement

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should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

Could you show us some evidence of this, please?

Gary L · 24-10-2010, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Gary, you still haven't justified your statement Could you show us some evidence of this, please?

Hugh. I don't have any evidence for my thoughts, no.
do you have an opinion on forced marriages in general, or anything to do with the subject. or shall we just argue about semantics and get the thread closed as usual?

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

we already have help in place to help such people ,the problem is that some muslims are so insular they will not allow others to help, they see it as interfering with their way of life .We should imo try to encourage such children as in your example to come forward because after all treatment like that is illegal in this country and if we prosecuted the parents more then maybe it would lessen

It may be their way of life. but it's what they've brought over with them. it's not acceptable in this country, and it's not about being against anyone in particular. it's being against what happens to the children who have grown up in this country.

they probably have no intention of leaving this country. so it's not just a thing some may have to put up with for a short time. the children may want to grow up differently to their olders and the same as others around them.

if it's seen as interfering in their business, then shame on us.

24-10-2010, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Hugh. I don't have any evidence for my thoughts, no.
do you have an opinion on forced marriages in general, or anything to do with the subject. or shall we just argue about semantics and get the thread closed as usual?

Is it the governments job to intercede ? as has already been said the government has put plenty of help in place ,there are also many charities that would help ,is this not enough ? .The help is there people have to want it and use it of their own free will ,we cannot force them

Gary L · 24-10-2010, 15:54

Isn't that like saying there's help for victims of rape. the help is there if you want it. we can't force you to take the help?

What about giving the message that forced marriages in this country are not tolerated to the parents. neither is beating the child if she disagrees with the forced marriage? or do we give the leaflet to the victim to pass on to her parents?

Quote:

"They put you in a room on your own, I don't get any food, or any water, and I have to just sit there and wait to die or kill myself."
To aid the process, a gun, a knife, and pills were left in the room, along with a can of petrol and a box of matches. In her view, Reviva says it would have amounted to murder, not suicide, should she have decided to killed herself.
"But I wasn't in a situation where I felt I have to end my life. Even if I was, I wouldn't have done it the way they wanted me to do it."

If she had her mobile on her. she could have got someone from the charity to talk to her abusers.

24-10-2010, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Isn't that like saying there's help for victims of rape. the help is there if you want it. we can't force you to take the help?
.

exactly the same ,yes, we can't force victims of rape to report it

Gary L · 24-10-2010, 16:02

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Originally Posted by martyh

exactly the same ,yes, we can't force victims of rape to report it

But in the case of the rape victim. she doesn't live within a family that has a high probablility of raping her. or does she for arguments sake?

24-10-2010, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

But in the case of the rape victim. she doesn't live within a family that has a high probablility of raping her. or does she for arguments sake?

well in a lot of cases there are instances of rape from family members in non-muslim households also any kind of abuse you care to think of .There is nothing stopping muslim children contacting childline apart from fear of the parents finding out which is a problem i suppose in most households where abuse takes place

papa smurf · 24-10-2010, 16:21

i cant get my head around this family honour thing
for instance i have two sons and i could not conceive of an instance where i would lock them in a room with the means to commit suicide just because they don't follow my beliefs /way of life.. i respect their individuality and choices in life ,i still reserve the right to pass comment [after all i am their dad ]but i don't believe i have the right to tell them how to live their lives its non of my business,this family honour thing just seems like a big stick to beat the kids with imo .