Gove to tackle schools' 'no touch' rules

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11458137

The myth that England's teachers are not allowed to touch pupils when they need to restrain or comfort them is to be tackled, the education secretary has said.
Michael Gove said the clarification was part of a "new deal" for teachers.
They would also be given some anonymity when facing allegations from pupils.

About time too.

However there is always one idiot..

But Children's Rights Alliance spokeswoman Carolyne Willow warned: "Giving even more powers to school staff to restrain children is a dangerous move that could contaminate schools and risks breaching human rights and child protection laws."

It's this damned grey area that has left staff unable to exert physical discipline in the classroom that has led to there being LESS security for pupils.
Stupid woman..

[Julian]

Can someone tell me which human right is being infringed if a teacher restrains a pupil who is kicking the crap out of another pupil?

[Osem]

I think it's a good idea but common sense will need to be applied and prevail. I wouldn't have thought those running and working within our schools are so bereft of this commodity that a reasonable compromise can't be reached in which the staff can/will intervene sensibly and responsibly either to enforce discipline or to provide comfort to children who've been hurt, taken ill or whatever.

[colin25]

Common sense has always been there..it is unfortunately the uncommon sense that prevails.

Whether it is an idiot teacher using too much force, or an idiot protectionist, banning reasonable restrainment.

bring back the good old days, leather strap, physical force by parents..abusing priests..oops..maybe not

[Osem]

Originally Posted by colin25

Common sense has always been there..it is unfortunately the uncommon sense that prevails.

Whether it is an idiot teacher using too much force, or an idiot protectionist, banning reasonable restrainment.

bring back the good old days, leather strap, physical force by parents..abusing priests..oops..maybe not

Sadly what used to be common sense has been replaced by rigidly inflexible rules and regulations which take no little or no account of reality and an inbalance in favour of the 'rights' of the problem pupil as opposed to the rights of the decent majority who'd just like to get on with their work in peace and quite.

Originally Posted by Julian

Can someone tell me which human right is being infringed if a teacher restrains a pupil who is kicking the crap out of another pupil?

Or restrains a pupil from kicking the crap out of another member of staff?

I get sick to death of hearing about the rights of the unruly to be curtailed what about the rights of the vast majority to be able to go to school and learn as they want. We really do pander to all the wrong sections in this country and then wonder why we have so many social problems. Back in my day you knew if you did something to another kid you would suffer for it these days you can do it and then play the victim and the system protects you what a joke.

I knew a school only a few years ago that had the foolowing rules on bullying that if you got hit once you were meant to count to ten, if you got hit again you had to tell the person that they had hurt you and only on the third strike were you allowed to go to a teacher and complain. That school became a complete mess with bullies working out they could hit someone twice before there was any risk and all for the sake of statistics and not officially being seen to have a bullying problem.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11458137



About time too.

However there is always one idiot..



It's this damned grey area that has left staff unable to exert physical discipline in the classroom that has led to there being LESS security for pupils.
Stupid woman..

What physical discipline do want them to exert?

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Julian

Can someone tell me which human right is being infringed if a teacher restrains a pupil who is kicking the crap out of another pupil?

None.

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

I think it's a good idea but common sense will need to be applied and prevail. I wouldn't have thought those running and working within our schools are so bereft of this commodity that a reasonable compromise can't be reached in which the staff can/will intervene sensibly and responsibly either to enforce discipline or to provide comfort to children who've been hurt, taken ill or whatever.

But that option has always been available.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What physical discipline do want them to exert?

The ability to restrain the child without the fear of being charged with assault, I would have thought.....

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But that option has always been available.

Hold the front page ... Flyboy and Michael Gove are in agreement

Originally Posted by BBC

The myth that England's teachers are not allowed to touch pupils when they need to restrain or comfort them is to be tackled, the education secretary has said.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I get sick to death of hearing about the rights of the unruly to be curtailed what about the rights of the vast majority to be able to go to school and learn as they want. We really do pander to all the wrong sections in this country and then wonder why we have so many social problems. Back in my day you knew if you did something to another kid you would suffer for it these days you can do it and then play the victim and the system protects you what a joke.

I knew a school only a few years ago that had the foolowing rules on bullying that if you got hit once you were meant to count to ten, if you got hit again you had to tell the person that they had hurt you and only on the third strike were you allowed to go to a teacher and complain. That school became a complete mess with bullies working out they could hit someone twice before there was any risk and all for the sake of statistics and not officially being seen to have a bullying problem.

No rights have been curtailed and none have been infringed. The ability to restrain pupils who are a danger to themselves or others have never been removed. The choice to apply first aid to an injured child or a consoling arm on the shoulder of child who is up set has always been there. There has never been any law to prevent this.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Hold the front page ... Flyboy and Michael Gove are in agreement

Hardly. He is whipping up Daily Heil style rhetoric as a smoke screen to avoid being carpeted again. He probably thinks that if bangs on about this popularised mythical crap, he won't have to mention school closures, building programme cancellations and budget cuts. As is mentioned, it is a myth, so what is he proposing to do?

You really don't like to read what's actually reported ...

Here:

Originally Posted by BBC

He said: "At the moment if you want to become au fait with what this department thinks on how to keep order in class you have to read the equivalent of War and Peace. "There are about 500 pages of guidance on discipline and another 500 pages on bullying. We will clarify and shrink that."

Come on Flyboy, even the NUT thinks this is a good idea, and they're not exactly known for giving Tory education secretaries an enthusiastic hearing.

Typical Flyboy reaction.In fact I expected it..I knew he'd be against it and see the words physical discipline as meaning beating the crap out of the pupils rather than preventing them from beating the hell out of each other and the staff.

[Flyboy]

My concern is how are they going to, "clarify and shrink that." The two dangers are that they will throw the baby out with the bath water (not an uncommon trait with this particular Secretary of State), or they will do nothing but waste time, effort and money, achieving little more than firing cheap shots at schools, previous govermnents and teachers.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Typical Flyboy reaction.In fact I expected it..I knew he'd be against it and see the words physical discipline as meaning beating the crap out of the pupils rather than preventing them from beating the hell out of each other and the staff.

So, what did you mean by physical discipline?

I am not against it, I just am against the knee-jerk rhetoric playing to the readers of the Daily Heil that every school in the country is going to hell in a handbasket.

[colin25]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

My concern is how are they going to, "clarify and shrink that." The two dangers are that they will throw the baby out with the bath water (not an uncommon trait with this particular Secretary of State), or they will do nothing but waste time, effort and money, achieving little more than firing cheap shots at schools, previous govermnents and teachers.

Personally, I think the baby has been in the bath too long..water needs changed, baby needs changed, hell, baby no longer baby

Bring back discipline..never put baby back in bath