France expels its gypsies

[Peter_]

All I think when I see this thread is that France have opened a can of worms.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Masque

All I think when I see this thread is that France have opened a can of worms.

Indeed, pan fried avec ail, fines herbes, griselles et Pouilly Fume.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Julian

Indeed, pain fritee avec ail, fines herbes, griselles et Pouilly Fume.

Oh no! Pouilly Fuisse for that meal!

[vanman]

Italy has become the latest country to begin a clear out of illegal Roma Gypsy campsites - just days after France began a similar controversial policy.
Twenty Roma travellers who had set up homes in camper vans and caravans were moved on from their site after being offered a paid for one way trip back to Romania.
The clear out took place at an illegal camp on the outskirts of Rome, which was then bulldozed by city council staff after mayor Gianni Alemanno announced the crackdown

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0yQ0uru1o


move from france get paid! so go to rome . move from rome get paid .

[Osem]

Doesn't seem to be too much sympathy around for these people.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/839493-b...itting-suicide

Evidently, the recent killings in Bratislava involved Roma gypsies and I've yet to come across anyone we know from that part of the world who's done anything other than shrug their shoulders whilst stating something like "well these people are troublemakers..."

Are these people so disliked because they're troublemakers or are they troublemakers because they're so disliked?...

----------------------------------------------

Just to add - the wife's just told me that she was chatting about this awful tragedy yesterday to a friend who's over here from Bratislava for a few weeks. She too didn't seem to have one iota of sympathy for those concerned and confirmed that was the general view amongst her friends and family....

If this is a true reflection of the depth of feeling of many of the local population perhaps it's no wonder that these gypsies turn up in other countries.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Osem

Doesn't seem to be too much sympathy around for these people.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/839493-b...itting-suicide

Evidently, the recent killings in Bratislava involved Roma gypsies and I've yet to come across anyone we know from that part of the world who's done anything other than shrug their shoulders whilst stating something like "well these people are troublemakers..."

Are these people so disliked because they're troublemakers or are they troublemakers because they're so disliked?...

Roma gypsies have long been the victims of systematic persecution whether they have been troublemakers or not.

Throughout time they have been persecuted wherever they have been. More recent examples have been the Nazis and the Czechs both of whom sought to either exterminate them or curtail their very procreation.

There's nothing new, or unusual, in european right wing politicians (or their followers) with fascist leanings electioneering by further persecuting them.

Funnily enough a 2007 UNICEF report identified 50,000 Romany children living as refugees in Germany.

You don't need to be a V2 rocket scientist to figure out what sort of allegations would be levelled at Germans / the German authorities if they attempted to forceably remove them or their parents from Germany. Why should the politicians or right wing neanderthals of France, Italy or indeed Northern Ireland for that matter be any different?

They're "easy pickings" - and historically always have been.

[Osem]

Just found this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-2068112.html

Might what looks like a populist stunt backfire on Sarkozy?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Roma gypsies have long been the victims of systematic persecution whether they have been troublemakers or not.

Aww bless 'em.

In that case they should be allowed to stay in their shanty town camps that they've built illegally, and they should be able to continue to work illegally, or run their various criminal rackets.

They've had enough hassle over the decades as it is.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Aww bless 'em.

In that case they should be allowed to stay in their shanty town camps that they've built illegally, and they should be able to continue to work illegally, or run their various criminal rackets.

They've had enough hassle over the decades as it is.

My point of their having been the victims of systematic persecution at the hands of right wing neanderthals, whether they have been troublemakers or not, is is aptly substantiated by your obvious "Tar 'em all with the one brush" attitude.

Well done my little gallic monikered ami.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Some Gypsies can cause an awful lot of porblems, we have several in the London area, BUT we do have some in the countryside where they just turn up, and use ancient laws to take over land.

I actually saw about 20 caravans break into a site on the 316 near Twickenham, and called the police, and nothing was done to the convoy. The problem with country, is that we are far to soft, and other countries are looking after there people, whereas, this country would probabely arranged for a luxury line to look after them in the English Channel just to show good faith, that this country is alifeline.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Some Gypsies can cause an awful lot of porblems, we have several in the London area, BUT we do have some in the countryside where they just turn up, and use ancient laws to take over land.

I actually saw about 20 caravans break into a site on the 316 near Twickenham, and called the police, and nothing was done to the convoy. The problem with country, is that we are far to soft, and other countries are looking after there people, whereas, this country would probabely arranged for a luxury line to look after them in the English Channel just to show good faith, that this country is alifeline.

Arthur I think I understand what you are trying to say.

Yes, some gypsies can cause an awful lot of problems - but that is not to say that all gypsies (be they Romany or other types) are by definition trouble makers - unless of course one is minded to such parochial, xenophobic & racist opinions.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

My point of their having been the victims of systematic persecution at the hands of right wing neanderthals, whether they have been troublemakers or not, is is aptly substantiated by your obvious "Tar 'em all with the one brush" attitude.

Well done my little gallic monikered ami.

Your point has no relevance whatsoever.

The facts are plain.

An influx of Romanians have decended on France (in this example). France did not invite them.

They have no money and no means to pay for accommodation.

They build a shanty town, they have no running water, drainage or sanitary amenities

The are involved in criminal activities.

The French authorities are doing the right thing by offloading them back to Romania. If they want to build a shanty town there they can, and the Romanian government can sort out their own mess. Why should France, or any other country have to deal with it.

These Romanians are not being persecuted, as you would romatically envisage. The fact is that these particular Romanians "are" troublemakers as they are in a place where they are not supposed to be, building a camp they are not supposed to build, being involved in criminal activity.

They could be Romanian, Dutch, English or marshian - they should be turfed out and sent back to Romania where I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms by the rest of the population who, I'm sure, have all been persecuted terribly and they can all build one big shanty town together and live happilly ever after.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Your point has no relevance whatsoever.

The facts are plain.

An influx of Romanians have decended on France (in this example). France did not invite them.

They have no money and no means to pay for accommodation.

They build a shanty town, they have no running water, drainage or sanitary amenities

The are involved in criminal activities.

The French authorities are doing the right thing by offloading them back to Romania. If they want to build a shanty town there they can, and the Romanian government can sort out their own mess. Why should France, or any other country have to deal with it.

These Romanians are not being persecuted, as you would romatically envisage. The fact is that these particular Romanians "are" troublemakers as they are in a place where they are not supposed to be, building a camp they are not supposed to build, being involved in criminal activity.

They could be Romanian, Dutch, English or marshian - they should be turfed out and sent back to Romania where I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms by the rest of the population who, I'm sure, have all been persecuted terribly and they can all build one big shanty town together and live happilly ever after.

Whilst you've proved you can write it appears that sadly you can't read.

France & the EU are obliged to accomodate fellow European citzens. The UNICEF report which I linked to, together with various other quantifiable sources - somewhat more enlightened than your opinion on the matter - clearly identify persecution as a systemic issue as far as Roma gypsies are concerned.

Just because you don't think it to be so does not mean it isn't so.

Again your assertion "these particular Romanians "are" troublemakers" and "... involved in criminal activity" are as unfounded, generalistic and xenophobic as the very similar (and now politically disputed / challenged) rantings of Sarkozy(i) which you are parroting.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Whilst you've proved you can write it appears that sadly you can't read.

France & the EU are obliged to accomodate fellow European citzens. The UNICEF report which I linked to, together with various other quantifiable sources - somewhat more enlightened than your opinion on the matter - clearly identify persecution as a systemic issue as far as Roma gypsies are concerned.

Just because you don't think it to be so does not mean it isn't so.

Again your assertion "these particular Romanians ""are" troublemakers" and "... involved in criminal activity" are as unfounded, generalistic and xenophobic as the very similar (and now politically disputed / challenged) rantings of Sarkozy(i) which you are parroting.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

Perhaps Belfast would be the best place for all the Romanian Gypsies to set up camp, considering you are so concerned about their welfare. I would certainly be pleased to contribute to a fund to repatriate our local gypsies of Irish origin if you want those too.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Whilst you've proved you can write it appears that sadly you can't read.

You Sir are the one who does not fully cook their information before digesting it.

France & the EU are obliged to accomodate fellow European citzens.

EU countries are only obliged to accommodate fellow European citizens (if they intend to stay for more than 6 months) as long as the citizens entering the country have:

either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;
or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;
or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories

Given that these romanians are living in shanty town I doubt they qualify in any of the above conditions. And certainly anyone found to be involved in criminal activity can be expelled immediately.

The UNICEF report which I linked to, together with various other quantifiable sources - somewhat more enlightened than your opinion on the matter - clearly identify persecution as a systemic issue as far as Roma gypsies are concerned.

The report you linked to covers South East Europe only, namely Albania, Bosnia Herzegovina,
Bulgaria, Kosovo, FYR Macedonia, Montenegro, Romania and Serbia.

Not Northern Europe, so intresting and applicable in may be in Serbia, it has no relevance in France.

Just because you don't think it to be so does not mean it isn't so.

I'm sure that incertain areas of Europe, these people have a dreadful time, indeed other wise they wouldn't come to France, and other Northern European countries. But that doesn't mean they can set up camp in France and expect to treated differently.

Again your assertion "these particular Romanians ""are" troublemakers" and "... involved in criminal activity" are as unfounded, generalistic and xenophobic as the very similar (and now politically disputed / challenged) rantings of Sarkozy(i) which you are parroting.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

I would argue that anyone living in a shanty town, in unsanitary conditions, and staying beyond their legal limit - is a trouble maker.

It's not xenophobic, once again the last resort of someone has no real argument is to turn to race, I'm so tired of that.

I'm sure that if such a camp was set up at the bottom of your garden, you'd welcome them with open arms and share a vodka or two. Then maybe not so much when the lead disappears from your roof, and you're offered your way with a 16yr old girl for a few quid as you walk home.

It's all very well being righteous when the issue is hundreds of miles away in another country, but what of the decent French folk having to endure this?

Send in the bulldozers.