Will Londoners get on their bike?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10810869

A bike hire scheme designed to encourage thousands more cycle journeys in central London has begun.
So far, more than 12,000 people have signed up to the idea, far outstripping the 5,000 bicycles which will be available at special docking stations.

To be honest I wouldn't care to ride a bike in London Traffic.

Anyone here think this will work?

[Gary L]

Without proper cycle lanes it will be chaos. the amount of times I've discovered that the slow moving traffic is down to a cyclist being on the road.

[punky]

It wouldn't incentivise me, and its nothing to do with riding a bike in London.

Its just the way the scheme is devised. You have to spend £45 a year to be a member before you're allowed near a bike. Then if you have it for more than 30 minutes, you are billed for it. Then if you turn up at your destination and its full you have to frantically get on your phone find the next nearest docking station, furiously pedal there, hope there is room and then run back to where you actually wanted to go. And then if the bike is nicked, you have to cough up £300 cash (which your contents insurance probably won't cover) which is at least 10 times the value of the bike.

I don't think there's a single part of the scheme that does make sense.

If it was free to register and maybe free for the first hour I might use it now and again for a laugh but it isn't the easiest, cheapest or safeest way to get about. And if I use it to dodge a crowded tube then everyone else will ahve the same idea and couldn't get bike for love nor money. If you are serious about what you are doing at the time (say trying to get to work) then you just wouldn't be able to rely on the scheme. And if you want it as a general convenience, then its stupidly expensive.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

And then if the bike is nicked, you have to cough up £300 cash (which your contents insurance probably won't cover) which is at least 10 times the value of the bike.

I dare you to find a new bike for £30. A half decent bike will quickly set you back £300 to £400.

Personally, I wouldn't use them as paying £45 to be a member and then £1 per hour is too expensive. A 23 kg bike sounds excessive as well. I prefer having my own urban assault vehicle kitted out as I like it.

I suppose they can be nice for occasional use, but not for the more serious/daily cyclist.

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by danielf

I dare you to find a new bike for £30. A half decent bike will quickly set you back £300 to £400.

Yes but we're talking about a bicycle that every one has had their own betty swollocks on, NOT a new bike

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Graham M

Yes but we're talking about a bicycle that every one has had their own betty swollocks on, NOT a new bike

You can buy seat covers

Seriously, I doubt these bikes are cheap. And if properly maintained, a replacement value of £300 doesn't sound too strange. A decent tyre costs £30.

@23 kg and 3 gears they do sound like cast iron monsters that'll be difficult to reach any decent speed on. I bet they'll be difficult to stop as well...

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

I dare you to find a new bike for £30. A half decent bike will quickly set you back £300 to £400.

It isn't a "half-decent bike" though. Its utilitarian, which by its nature is cheap.

You can get reasonable bikes for £50-£100 online. Considering this bike has less gears etc and buying in the volume that TFL can bargin with (10,000s+) then the wholesale cost would probably be less than £30/unit as I was being generous. I can get one for £70 retail then i'm sure wholesale with mass orders and contracted support i'm sure the cost could be negotiated less than £30/unit.

[Bifta]

They're going to get vandalised, tyres punctured, wheels kicked in, cables snapped etc.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

It isn't a "half-decent bike" though. Its utilitarian, which by its nature is cheap.

I disagree. These are sturdy bikes, not performance bikes. That doesn't mean they are cheap. They will see a fair amount of abuse and will be built to stand that. That doesn't make them cheap.

You can get reasonable bikes for £50-£100 online. Considering this bike has less gears etc and buying in the volume that TFL can bargin with (10,000s+) then the wholesale cost would probably be less than £30/unit as I was being generous. I can get one for £70 retail then i'm sure wholesale with mass orders and contracted support i'm sure the cost could be negotiated less than £30/unit.

I guess our definition of reasonable differs. Most of the carp that say Halfords sell struggles to last a year without falling apart given frequent use. That type of bike is definitely not up to this type of use.

[punky]

You're talking design of fixtures and fittings here. These bikes are titanium or carbon fibre.

They are big and bulky (i.e. to be sturdy and withstand abuse) but that doesn't mean the price goes stratospheric.

I'd be suprised if there was more than £5 or £10 worth of raw materials (metal and rubber) in that bike. Again, whole sale prices here, not B&Q. If you want things a bit thicker and stronger than you raw materials go up in proportion to amount you use. The TFL bikes do not contain 10 times more material than you'd get for a bottom of the line bike,

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

You're talking design of fixtures and fittings here. These bikes are titanium or carbon fibre.

They are big and bulky (i.e. to be sturdy and withstand abuse) but that doesn't mean the price goes stratospheric.

These bikes weigh 23 kg (stated in the article). My aluminium bike weighs 12 kg. These are not titanium or carbon fibre bikes. They are heavy steel bikes. And the replacement value isn't stratospheric.

Originally Posted by punky

I'd be suprised if there was more than £5 or £10 worth of raw materials (metal and rubber) in that bike. Again, whole sale prices here, not B&Q. If you want things a bit thicker and stronger than you raw materials go up in proportion to amount you use. The TFL bikes do not contain 10 times more material than you'd get for a bottom of the line bike,

It's not about amount of material, it's about quality. As I said earlier, a decent tyre retails at 25-30 quid. I can't find any on Evans that are cheaper than £17. Obviously, wholesale will be cheaper, but we're just talking about one tyre here. Wholesale price of one tyre is more than your estimate for the raw materials in the entire bike.

A good idea imo ,this type of scheme is already in use in Cardiff and Reading by this company who have just launched another scheme in calaise making three in france .I can see it taking off in this country

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

These bikes weigh 23 kg (stated in the article). My aluminium bike weighs 12 kg. These are not titanium or carbon fibre bikes. They are heavy steel bikes. And the replacement value isn't stratospheric.

My point wasn't the weight, it was the cost of the material. Steel, iron, aluminimum are cheap. Cheaper than you'd think.

It's not about amount of material, it's about quality. As I said earlier, a decent tyre retails at 25-30 quid. I can't find any on Evans that are cheaper than £17. Obviously, wholesale will be cheaper, but we're just talking about one tyre here. Wholesale price of one tyre is more than your estimate for the raw materials in the entire bike.

I'm talking wholesale cost of materials here. Good tires and cheap tires are still made out of rubber. Sometimes small composites may be added but it doesn't send the price soaring.

However you cost it though, I am sure the bikes do not cost £300 to replace and so they are profiting out of people's misfortune. I'm sure there are admin costs to replace the bike etc, but i'm sure they've budgetted for a bit of revenue in there.

Originally Posted by Bifta

They're going to get vandalised, tyres punctured, wheels kicked in, cables snapped etc.

There is a button available at docking stations that when pressed locks the bike in place and alerts the roaming small army of bike techs that a bike is out of action and needs fixing.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

My point wasn't the weight, it was the cost of the material. Steel, iron, aluminimum are cheap. Cheaper than you'd think.

I'm talking wholesale cost of materials here. Good tires and cheap tires are still made out of rubber. Sometimes small composites may be added but it doesn't send the price soaring.

I just looked it up. Hot-rolled steel coil costs $550 per ton. 23 kgs of it is $12.65. Then there's the cost of making a bike out of it. And you've got to buy tyres. Kevlar reinforced ones preferably, so you don't have to fix a flat every other day.

However you cost it though, I am sure the bikes do not cost £300 to replace and so they are profiting out of people's misfortune. I'm sure there are admin costs to replace the bike etc, but i'm sure they've budgetted for a bit of revenue in there.

They may well be cheaper, just not as ridiculously cheap as you seem to think. Building a sturdy product comes at a price as well.

I suspect part of the price is the consideration would be to not tempt people to have one 'go missing' and keep it or sell it on.