Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Yes but it was crystal clear to even deaf people, that they where telling him to the the spainard through, even more so the Rob said sorry.

In his post race interview his smile said "you know it was a team order".

Had it ben closer in the points and only a few races left, and the team had worded as a psoosible fault, I doubt it would have been queried.

But orders such as that would only be given if the lead car had no chance of winning the race. Massa had every chance of doing so.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Saying something is one thing, saying something and getting an immediate repsonse from it with a subsequent apology from the person saying it is another. Also they haven;t got away with it.. They have been fined and it has been referred higher up than just the race stewards

I wonder if they'll perhaps consider banning two way comms soon and purely have it as one way (driver to pit) with perhaps just an acknoledgement signal in return

I am in two minds about the possibility of disqualification on this. Yes, it would be justified, but it would have a detrimental effect on the championship standings, in regards to Hamilton's and Button's campaign.

---------- Post added at 16:48 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Originally Posted by sherer

it's happened in plenty of other championships. I think all the WMSC will do is clarify the rule or remove it altogether. It's a team sport and they worked as a team to get the best result for the team. Yes I would rather they overtook each other on track but seeing as Red Bull have shown how that can work out I don't blame them.

Can't see them having one way radio as then the teams can't tell drivers about problems with the car or other dangers.

This is not a team sport, in the same sense as a football match. The team aspect is a much loser concept. It is similar to the GB Olympic team. None of them would relinquish a place, in order for the team to earn more medals. Their positions are respected by others.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Kymmy

And how did they do it before radios... Oh they used the pit-board

I see that Eddie has now put in his 2pence worth..

To me the whole point about watching the race is that you never know what's gonna happen. If they introduce team orders then you can predict a race when it's about half way through.. For example in this race Massa would have let Alfonso through a lot earlier then would have acted like a block to Vettel. It simple should not have happened, If Alofonso wanted to win then he should have driven like a winner.. Instead he drove like a 2nd placer who then spat out his dummy and was given a win that he shouldn't have had..

Totally spoiled the race for a lot of people

When Vettel showed the promise of catching the Ferraris, I was looking forward to a battle royal for first place. I was predicting several changes of leadership before the end.

I was watching with Flyboy9, even he understood the meaning of "OK...so....Fernando is faster than you....can you confirm you understood that message?"

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But orders such as that would only be given if the lead car had no chance of winning the race. Massa had every chance of doing so.

And had Massa won Ferrari would have been no better off in terms of the drivers championship (which is the title everyone wants, no one remembers the constructors winners, just the driver and the car he was driving).

Ferrari now have a competitive car, and with only 8 races left they have decided to back Alonso. I see nothing wrong with that.

I am in two minds about the possibility of disqualification on this. Yes, it would be justified, but it would have a detrimental effect on the championship standings, in regards to Hamilton's and Button's campaign

It wouldn't be justifed, all F1 teams bend, and sometimes blatently break, rules.

It's the rule that needs to be removed.

Nearly all teams have No.1 & No.2 drivers. Even if they say they don't..............ask Mark Webber.................

[/quote]
This is not a team sport, in the same sense as a football match. [/quote]
No but it is in the same sense as say a cycling team, were the team are there to support their main rider.

It is similar to the GB Olympic team. None of them would relinquish a place, in order for the team to earn more medals. Their positions are respected by others.

It's nothing of the sort Team GB is made up of Indvidual competitors and team event competitors competing in a multi-event tournament.

[Kymmy]

A slap in the face to Massa and really a way of telling him that he won;t be allowed to win a race... Is there any point in him driving??

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

A slap in the face to Massa and really a way of telling him that he won;t be allowed to win a race... Is there any point in him driving??

Yes, driving for the team that pays his wages and supporting the driver that the team have backed to have the best shot at the title.

The same way Irvine did for Schumacher, Barachello did for Schumacher, Massa did for Raikonnen and Raikonnen did for Massa.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It's nothing of the sort Team GB is made up of Indvidual competitors and team event competitors competing in a multi-event tournament.

Which kind of proves the point. That describes, very well, the team concept in Formula One.

[Kymmy]

Oh I don't deny that, but in the end it is simply against the rules.. and rightly so

Anyone read the top gear thread as they did a great report (iplayer link last 10 minutes)on Senna showing some fantastic driving in the 80's which was when I got interested in F1.. In those days team orders might have been used but it never shown, these days the racing is that clinical that team orders do impact the enjoyment of the race which is probably why they are banned

On other subject last night on BBC2 there was a documentary on the 1955 LeMans crash (iplayer link) and tonight there's Richard Hammond talking to Stirling Moss (11pm-ish) they've both probably been on before but still great watching.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

I wonder if they'll perhaps consider banning two way comms soon and purely have it as one way (driver to pit) with perhaps just an acknoledgement signal in return

They shold perhaps look at only using it for essentail messages.

[Jon T]

Telling someone that they've got to slow down to let the slower driver past. It ruins the race, it's against the spirit of racing........infact, it's not racing. It becomes a carefully managed stage show, akin to WWE.


Alonso has firmly expressed his true colours with this, Crashgate at Renault, The spying saga at McLaren, and now this. He's a arrogant <insert expleetive> that acts like a spoilt brat.

Renault - makes out that he had no part in his team mates crash

McLaren - Ron called his bluff, Alonso though he could get what he wanted by threatening the team. Now that backfired on him slightly didn't it.

Ferrari - Let's face it, not the cleanest team on the planet, with a history of willingness to forget all about one driver in favour of another, must have looked a dream ticket for Alonso, they make good bed fellows for each other

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Which kind of proves the point. That describes, very well, the team concept in Formula One.

No, it doesn't, the olympic analogy would be like ferrari having a racing team, a sprinter, a rowing team, a long jumper, a power lifter and a basketball team, all wearing ferrari shirts but all competing in completely different sporting events.

In F1 you have a team of mechanics, designers, and drivers all working for the same goal. to win the drivers championship (yes there is the constructors title but that's not the No.1 goal.)

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

They shold perhaps look at only using it for essentail messages.

or perhaps get rid of the encryption and make it a totally open system, that way anything that is said is audible to all and available for scrutiny by all.

[j52c]

Originally Posted by Pierre

And had Massa won Ferrari would have been no better off in terms of the drivers championship (which is the title everyone wants, no one remembers the constructors winners, just the driver and the car he was driving).

I think it is the Constructor Title that the teams wish to have the most because of all the money they get if they do win, Ferrari get more than anyone else if they win, that has been known for a long time. the lower down in the Constructors Title you are the less you get that is why the small teams want to at least get some points. I don't think the team get anything if one of their drivers win the championship, except they may have more comapines wishing to offer sponsership money.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by j52c

I think it is the Constructor Title that the teams wish to have the most because of all the money they get if they do win, Ferrari get more than anyone else if they win, that has been known for a long time. the lower down in the Constructors Title you are the less you get that is why the small teams want to at least get some points. I don't think the team get anything if one of their drivers win the championship, except they may have more comapines wishing to offer sponsership money.

Nobody remembers who won the constructors title, yes they get money and they get first pit on the pit lane but it's the winning driver that gets all the publicity.

When Hamilton won the championship, Ferrari won the constructors title. I don't recall seeing loads of pictures, or adverts, sponorships about ferrari, massa and raikonnen that year.

It was all Hamilton.

[Cobbydaler]

Luca di Montezemolo condemns 'hypocrisy':

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8856761.stm

[Matth]

Ferrari are 100% to blame for the rule being there anyway, as it was them that broke the "gentleman's agreement" of team orders in 2002, with a place swap which was not championship critical. When one driver is way back, with no or only a very slim chance, then everyone watching understood and agreed when called on to relinquish a place to the driver with more chance.

And doesn't trouble follow Alonso around?

[Flyboy]

It certainly does. He was right at the centre of Ferrarigate.