Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]

[Kymmy]

Yep they race as there's still many, many, many more TV fans.. Just because the track is inaccessible the TV isn;t.. Remove though what the fans want and the fans walk whether it be from the track, TV, radio, mechandise.. As I said no fans no racing..

How much income is derived from football ticket sales compared with sponsorship, merchandising, TV rights..etc

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by sherer

have you not watched Turkey and China. Both races have almost no fans at the track. In fact most of the time the market they are trying to get to buy their products aren't even in the countries they race in anyway.

The fact is that the sport exists to entertain and excite the fans. Regardless of whether they are physically present at the track, they still count. Advertisers/sponsors are not going to pay for advertising space on the cars, drivers or track if they don't think people are going to watch it. Where people watch it is not relevant.

The problem with team orders is racing is more exciting *if* drivers take some risks. If one driver is ordered to slow down (however indirectly), where is the excitement? If people want to see that, they might as well hang around their local road and watch the cars there. It'll be a lot cheaper and will be as exciting.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by sherer

have you not watched Turkey and China. Both races have almost no fans at the track. In fact most of the time the market they are trying to get to buy their products aren't even in the countries they race in anyway.

How many people watch Formula One on television, throughout the world?

[sherer]

millions of people watch throughout the world and team orders won't change that. Even after a row of boring races it doesn't affect the viewing figures much.

Passing has been made almost impossible in recent years and we still see good viewing figures

[Flyboy]

Nearly nine million people watched Jensen Button win his title back in October last year. This is because the competition was exciting. This year's British Grand Prix was watched by only four and half million (half of those who watched in October), because there was, comparatively, nothing exciting to watch.

[Kymmy]

I wonder what the world wide figures are??

[Flyboy]

I can't find anything on global figures, but here is two thousand and eight's viewing figures. I haven't checked to see which ones were the boring ones, but I do seem to remember that Australia was nothing more than a procession.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-inform...ience-figures/

16 March 2008 Australian Grand Prix** 3,900,000
23 March 2008 Malaysian Grand Prix* (<2.81m)
06 April 2008 Bahrain Grand Prix 3,580,000
27 April 2008 Spanish Grand Prix 3,510,000
11 May 2008 Turkish Grand Prix* (<2.9m)
25 May 2008 Monaco Grand Prix 3,980,000
08 June 2008 Canadian Grand Prix 3,990,000
22 June 2008 French Grand Prix 3,350,000
4 July 2008 British Grand Prix 4,530,000
20 July 2008 German Grand Prix 3,190,000
3 August 2008 Hungarian Grand Prix 3,880,000
24 August 2008 European Grand Prix (<3m)
7 September 2008 Belgian Grand Prix 3,870,000
14 September 2008 Italian Grand Prix 3,550,000
28 September 2008 Singapore Grand Prix 3,950,000
12 October 2008 Japanese Grand Prix* (<3.25m)
19 October 2008 Chinese Grand Prix* (<3.47m)
2 November 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix 9,080,000)

*Did not rank among the top 30 programmes on ITV1 that week.
**’As live’ replay

I haven't checked to see which ones were the boring ones, but I do seem to remember that Australia was nothing more than a procession and there was a drop of almost one million viewers for the next race.

There were nine million viewers for Brazil, because of the tension being built with the battle between Hamilton and Massa; a jump of almost six million from the previous race and almost two million more than the previous year's final round. Pretty conclusive in proving that British viewers, at least, find excitment compelling viewing.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by sherer

this is the grey area in the rules. All the team did is tell the driver that Alonso was quicker. After that Massa who drivers for Ferrari and has a contract with them then chose to slow down and let Alonso through. You and I know this is team orders but at no point was he instructed to do so. All they will say is that it was a driver decision. We, and everyone else with an IQ that isn't less an 1 knows that is a load of rubbish but that is the loophole they use. All the championships that ban team orders use the same approach and i've seen it loads of times, even in F1, and they get away with it.

Yes but it was crystal clear to even deaf people, that they where telling him to the the spainard through, even more so the Rob said sorry.

In his post race interview his smile said "you know it was a team order".

Had it ben closer in the points and only a few races left, and the team had worded as a psoosible fault, I doubt it would have been queried.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Yes but it was crystal clear to even deaf people, that they where telling him to the the spainard through, even more so the Rob said sorry.

In his post race interview his smile said "you know it was a team order".

Had it ben closer in the points and only a few races left, and the team had worded as a psoosible fault, I doubt it would have been queried.

yes we all know it was a team order but the fact is that order was never given just some information to Massa that Alonso was quicker. In all the championships where team orders are banned this is the line that is taken. They gave Massa some information and then the driver decided to let Alonso through.

Yes this is all discussed before the race and working for the team and wanting to stay with the team he knows full well what they are saying and what he has to do.

If they take action over this then there are plenty of other times this season the same thing has happened lower down the order or teams telling drivers to ease off, save fuel etc.

As long as they can use the line we didn't give a direct order I think they will get away with it

[Kymmy]

Saying something is one thing, saying something and getting an immediate repsonse from it with a subsequent apology from the person saying it is another. Also they haven;t got away with it.. They have been fined and it has been referred higher up than just the race stewards

I wonder if they'll perhaps consider banning two way comms soon and purely have it as one way (driver to pit) with perhaps just an acknoledgement signal in return

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Saying something is one thing, saying something and getting an immediate repsonse from it with a subsequent apology from the person saying it is another. Also they haven;t got away with it.. They have been fined and it has been referred higher up than just the race stewards

I wonder if they'll perhaps consider banning two way comms soon and purely have it as one way (driver to pit) with perhaps just an acknoledgement signal in return

it's happened in plenty of other championships. I think all the WMSC will do is clarify the rule or remove it altogether. It's a team sport and they worked as a team to get the best result for the team. Yes I would rather they overtook each other on track but seeing as Red Bull have shown how that can work out I don't blame them.

Can't see them having one way radio as then the teams can't tell drivers about problems with the car or other dangers.

[Kymmy]

And how did they do it before radios... Oh they used the pit-board

I see that Eddie has now put in his 2pence worth..

To me the whole point about watching the race is that you never know what's gonna happen. If they introduce team orders then you can predict a race when it's about half way through.. For example in this race Massa would have let Alfonso through a lot earlier then would have acted like a block to Vettel. It simple should not have happened, If Alofonso wanted to win then he should have driven like a winner.. Instead he drove like a 2nd placer who then spat out his dummy and was given a win that he shouldn't have had..

Totally spoiled the race for a lot of people

[j52c]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You have to be very naive if you think team orders don't go on with other teams.

Earlier this year when Button had a go at Hamilton and Hamilton got the lead back he was told to back off and not overtake.

Or should I say he was told to "conserve Fuel"

Alonso, at this stage, has the strongest chance of winning the title and Massa will have to support him.

Let us not forget that Raikonnen had to play 2nd fiddle to Massa a couple of years ago when Massa was in the strongest position to win the title.

It's a team sport, and you can't get away from team orders. It's the way it has always been

In the above race, Massa let Raikonnon pass him near the end and so giving the title to Raikonnon. If Massa had won that race then Hamilton would have been champion.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

And how did they do it before radios... Oh they used the pit-board

I see that Eddie has now put in his 2pence worth..

To me the whole point about watching the race is that you never know what's gonna happen. If they introduce team orders then you can predict a race when it's about half way through.. For example in this race Massa would have let Alfonso through a lot earlier then would have acted like a block to Vettel. It simple should not have happened, If Alofonso wanted to win then he should have driven like a winner.. Instead he drove like a 2nd placer who then spat out his dummy and was given a win that he shouldn't have had..

Totally spoiled the race for a lot of people

I think in the past it was all done in the team talk before the race but it still went on. Guess some of it could have been done on the pit board too.

To be honest in the past few years once the first stop was out of the way you could guess the order at the end too. In fact without this happening you would be hard press to remember anything from this race in a few weeks time.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by j52c

In the above race, Massa let Raikonnon pass him near the end and so giving the title to Raikonnon. If Massa had won that race then Hamilton would have been champion.

Thanks for that insightful well thought out post....................

I'm talking about the year after when Hamilton won the title, the roles were reversed in Ferrari and Massa was given the nod to go against Hamilton, and Kimi who was world champion effectively became the no.2 driver.

Massa was seconds from winning it too.

He's had his shot at the title and he'll probably get another shot too, but He should just get on with it and support Alonso this year. The team have made it clear that's who they're backing